phantasm 10 Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 My trigger to this site is "dacapo". I watched anime version on youtube and someone mentioned about this site. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
phantasm 10 Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Well, he's right I guess. It comes down to whether one loves to read or not... Not much to do about it. Atleast you have a friend like that who watches anime. That's not so bad after all. Drawing a friend to anime world is an easy task. Just show him "Guilty crown".Surprising it really work well for this task,because of its awesome music,visual,mecha,romance and fan-service(Inori really work well for this). It is the best kind of anime to show to a starter(without complicated story and boring talk). I bring most of my friends into anime world with just this one. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iLoveTsundere 10 Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 I had played VNs since true love in 1995 but stopped after 3 more , last one was Nocturnal Illusions. Didnt care much about VNs back then it was just a weird hobby of mine. Then my gf pulled me over to the VN side couple of years ago , i got hooked , and here i am. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
maths debater 10 Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Never told anyone i played eroge and never will, social ostracising is bad : ( I dont really see the point in actively making people appreciating the value of VN's, as long as i recognize its greatness its good enough. If people cant overcome societal prejudices and find out for themselves what VN's are really are its their loss. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
OneManArmy 82 Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 actually the reason I joined this forum was to be able to talk about these things... May your wish be fulfilled. I dont really see the point in actively making people appreciating the value of VN's, as long as i recognize its greatness its good enough. And having a smaller community is way better anyway. I don't want something like visual novel casual players. =\ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pramit 22 Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 I don't want something like visual novel casual players. =\ you make it sound like a e-sport Quote Link to post Share on other sites
OneManArmy 82 Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 you make it sound like a e-sport Well, it's just that these casual players already destroyed the quality of computer games and I don't want to see the same happening to my beloved visual novels. Also, it's way more enjoyable if you're talking to perverted people who are really into this stuff. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
maths debater 10 Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Well, it's just that these casual players already destroyed the quality of computer games and I don't want to see the same happening to my beloved visual novels. Also, it's way more enjoyable if you're talking to perverted people who are really into this stuff. Gotta be hardcore with gaming. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mishagal 19 Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 [ATTACH=CONFIG]6819[/ATTACH] that picture is way better without colors, now it looks like he is going to capture guys (in his male form) *shudder* Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pramit 22 Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Well, it's just that these casual players already destroyed the quality of computer games and I don't want to see the same happening to my beloved visual novels. Also, it's way more enjoyable if you're talking to perverted people who are really into this stuff. can i get a better definition of what it means to be "casual" for vn's? in gaming, everyone starts out as "casual". The other side of casual is professional where people make money by streams and tourneys, and that is like, less than 1% of playerbase...further, there is no easy distinction between "casual" and "skilled", because the former eventually reaches the latter. Balance changes are usually from tourney plays though, because whatever they do in these tournaments, it is bound to be the new meta for the game. So no, i disagree with casual gamers ruining gaming..sry i took your comment seriously Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iLoveTsundere 10 Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 can i get a better definition of what it means to be "casual" for vn's? in gaming, everyone starts out as "casual". The other side of casual is professional where people make money by streams and tourneys, and that is like, less than 1% of playerbase...further, there is no easy distinction between "casual" and "skilled", because the former eventually reaches the latter. Balance changes are usually from tourney plays though, because whatever they do in these tournaments, it is bound to be the new meta for the game. So no, i disagree with casual gamers ruining gaming..sry i took your comment seriously I disagree with you when you say casual will eventually lead to "skilled" , i will take VNs as an example : Some people are fine with and will play nukiges regularly and enjoy it , be it for the H scenes or whatever comedy it might have in it , or games like Duel Savior that are more light-hearted in nature combined with those action parts (i also like and have played duel savior for the record) , but not all of them will enjoy the most serious VNs that need throughout reading-between-the-lines like muv luv alternative , ever17 , etc , as in the ones which require you as a reader to delve deep in the story. You just cant do that as a casual reader. And i know for a fact that there are people who will NEVER appreciate these kind of dark deep plotted VNs , or even ones with heavy drama like Clannad. What i meant with all of this is that there are limits to what people will enjoy and those limits arent always very wide so those people will never venture further from the light-hearted non-serious side of VNs. Those will never evolve further than that and will stagnate. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pramit 22 Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 (edited) I disagree with you when you say casual will eventually lead to "skilled" , i will take VNs as an example : Some people are fine with and will play nukiges regularly and enjoy it , be it for the H scenes or whatever comedy it might have in it , or games like Duel Savior that are more light-hearted in nature combined with those action parts (i also like and have played duel savior for the record) , but not all of them will enjoy the most serious VNs that need throughout reading-between-the-lines like muv luv alternative , ever17 , etc , as in the ones which require you as a reader to delve deep in the story. You just cant do that as a casual reader. And i know for a fact that there are people who will NEVER appreciate these kind of dark deep plotted VNs , or even ones with heavy drama like Clannad. What i meant with all of this is that there are limits to what people will enjoy and those limits arent always very wide so those people will never venture further from the light-hearted non-serious side of VNs. Those will never evolve further than that and will stagnate. i was talking about normal games like rts, moba,etc. The person i quoted aimed it at casual players in general, not only casual visual novel players. It takes some patience to click through a visual novel but surely anyone who is competent english reader should have absolutely no problem understanding it? Where your talking about "casual" and "skilled" you usually imply a depth(information regarding the game, commonly called "burden of knowledge") or skill or some sort of mechanical learning curve. I see none in visual novels. To repeat my point, as long as your a competent english reader you will understand what the vn is saying, all it takes is some patience to get through the boring bits or the clicking. VN's like ever17, or muv luv alternative are easy to understand or comprehend and quite enjoyable to read then again, i have met people who failed to appreciate the quality of a good vn(people who read only half of it, or people who are too lazy to even begin reading). i hate those people, says the angry visual novel fan Edited October 21, 2012 by pramit Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iLoveTsundere 10 Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 i was talking about normal games like rts, moba,etc. The person i quoted aimed it at casual players in general, not only casual visual novel players. It takes some patience to click through a visual novel but surely anyone who is competent english reader should have absolutely no problem understanding it? Where your talking about "casual" and "skilled" you usually imply a depth(information regarding the game, commonly called "burden of knowledge") or skill or some sort of mechanical learning curve. I see none in visual novels. To repeat my point, as long as your a competent english reader you will understand what the vn is saying, all it takes is some patience to get through the boring bits or the clicking. VN's like ever17, or muv luv alternative are easy to understand or comprehend and quite enjoyable to read You would be surprised at the incredible amount of people who just skipped through muv luv alternative because they couldnt understand the plot and didnt want to , or just "read" through it because its "popular to like VNs like muv luv" so they get accepted as elite. Laughable. Not everyone can enjoy it , and theres nothing wrong with that , different strokes for different folks. About normal game styles thats subjective , if you really like a game you start off as a casual and build up your skill on it , but VNs (at least not the ones with gameplay) arent games. They are more akin books , with images and voices (for the most part). When talking about casuals in VNs , its the same as casuals readers VS insightful readers. On normal games you mostly just kill/build/whatever and you either suck at those or you get better at it , reading is second plane as gravy unless its point and click adventure games where you need to take stuff into consideration. There's no hand/eye coordination needed when reading a VN with an intricate plot with zero gameplay, but you wont understand any of it if you have no insight to understand the twists at the very least. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pramit 22 Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 You would be surprised at the incredible amount of people who just skipped through muv luv alternative because they couldnt understand the plot and didnt want to , or just "read" through it because its "popular to like VNs like muv luv" so they get accepted as elite. wow, where do you get these people? the people i meet don't even know what vn is....i have only recently started using these forums(this is the only one i use atm, if you'd be kind enough to suggest others, i'd gladly observe them too) so i don't know much about the people your talking about. crowd mentality and trying to get accepted into society applies to all stuff though. But i understand the context now. I still disagree, correlation is not causation, and i find that, compared to LN/books, VN are fairly easy to read and understand. The casual readers vs insightful readers only applies when your reading a book of that caliber imo Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iLoveTsundere 10 Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 agreed , but you have to take in consideration that not everyone will read a deep plot VN out of genuinely liking it unfortunately...just like there are people who will start reading muv luv extra , like it for being that kind of comedy feel , and then start to dislike unlimited and hate alternative because it gets serious , and then just quit during mid-read. i dont think they will ever give that step further any time soon unfortunately but its like i said , different strokes for different folks. still its quite a shame really... just a while ago there was a guy on Shoutbox asking everyone when was there H-scenes on Katawa Shoujo , and said he mainly just wants the sex scenes...thats one example. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
OneManArmy 82 Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Dat discussion What have I started? (;¬_¬) can i get a better definition of what it means to be "casual" for vn's? Sure and it has nothing to do with skills. A casual player is for me a person who, for example, plays computer games BUT not with his full soul. Or in other words, he isn't a freak. And I know that I'm selfish but I prefer a community where people know what they are talking about. The problem with computer games these is that they're trying to reach casual players as well. Because of this games tend to be too easy and with this I mean both, difficulty and story. That's the reason why point and click adventure are pretty much dead. Most casual players don't want to solve stuff, they want to kill stuff. They want to feel like a boss. I could continue but I'm sure you get what I want to say; freaks ftw! \o/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pramit 22 Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 just a while ago there was a guy on Shoutbox asking everyone when was there H-scenes on Katawa Shoujo , and said he mainly just wants the sex scenes...thats one example. wow really? that is really sad. btw, now that you mention muv luv, i really liked this speech - What is it that drives us on? What makes us stand back up when our bodies are battered and bruised? It is the knowledge that devoting every part of ourselves to fighting against despair is the duty given to those who are still alive, and the fact that doing so is the one and only way to honor those who have given their lives for humanity's victory. Listen to the voices of those sleeping in the Earth. Listen to the voices of those who met their end at sea. Listen to the voices of those who lost to the sky. ...the time has come for their dying wish to become a reality Young soldiers are about to set off on a journey They will be carrying with them the wishes of those still here, and of those long gone, as they depart to face the enemy alone and without backup. Whether history chooses to glorify them or not...we will remember them. We will carve into our hearts the noble deeds of those who are not permitted to reveal even their names. ...young ones Do not forgive us for being unable to teach you anything but fighting Do not forgive our inability to avoid sending you onto the battlefield ...I pray that your act of bravery will form the cornerstone of a world where we no longer send such young men and women into battle. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Harlequin 17 Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 freaks ftw! \o/ F-f-freeeeeak!? Why!... Well... yes... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iLoveTsundere 10 Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 (edited) this uh? i agree. Especially because it also serves to give yuuko a more dere side. Also Radhabinod's promotion speech. "Look Marimo , your children are there..." (or something along those lines) Edited October 21, 2012 by iLoveTsundere Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pramit 22 Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 (edited) Sure and it has nothing to do with skills. A casual player is for me a person who, for example, plays computer games BUT not with his full soul. Or in other words, he isn't a freak. And I know that I'm selfish but I prefer a community where people know what they are talking about. The problem with computer games these is that they're trying to reach casual players as well. Because of this games tend to be too easy and with this I mean both, difficulty and story. That's the reason why point and click adventure are pretty much dead. Most casual players don't want to solve stuff, they want to kill stuff. They want to feel like a boss. I could continue but I'm sure you get what I want to say; freaks ftw! \o/ i do not believe "full soul" can discriminate between casual and hardcore. Er..refer to the rest of my post, since i said a lot of stuff that went ignored D: some tournaments are decided by teams who have more stamina to endure the long gaming hours They want to feel like a boss. obviously there needs to be a incentive to play..who doesn't want to feel like winning and having their ego's inflated? that has nothing to do with casual or professional players. Professional/hardcore players are humans too.. here's the thing...just because you play online and compete with many players in a competitive game does not make you any different from a casual player. You are still casual, just differently seeded. You become a pro when you start making money. If your talking about "hardcore" or someone who is highly skilled...i am a decent aoe3 player, and i'll let you know that there's no way i can call myself different from casual after being beaten by better players and losing countless tourneys in the first or second rounds..and it took me a little less than a year to become that good(first time playing rts competitively) and i played this game for 2 years. why else will 99% of player base be "casual" Edited October 21, 2012 by pramit Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gerard the Lone Wolf 10 Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 And having a smaller community is way better anyway. I don't want something like visual novel casual players. =\ Neither am I. It's bad enough that game nowadays sucks because they were made for retard players, and I don't want the same shit to happen to VNs. The problem is imo, the name itself, "eroge", immediately associated with porn. Well, it's complicated stuff... Eroge: Term often used by the industry in replace of hentai for erotic games.. further, there is no easy distinction between "casual" and "skilled", Orly? Furthermore, it's supposed to be between "casual" and "hardcore"... "While "skill" is something that people developed when they spent enough time with the game. And it's pretty easy to distinguish between "casual" and "hardcore". Perhaps you just can't realize it. because the former eventually reaches the latter. And before they reach it, IF they ever reach it, the former will always stay as casual. So no, i disagree with casual gamers ruining gaming.. CoD, DA2, and many more... I will never tell anyone IRL about VNs. My preciousssssssssssss~~~ ψ(*｀ー´)ψ I've a sudden urge of quoting myself. That's all; Lastly, for the VN stuff. I dunno why people wanted the society to accept the existence of VNs. It's pointless and meaningless. The acceptance of society is equal to someone translating this, IMO. It's good that people wants to introduce VNs to their friends, but as too... i feel the best way to get people interested in visual novels is to post screenshot's on forum pages and such. Meh. i do not believe "full soul" can discriminate between casual and hardcore. You seems to be confused between differentiate and discriminate. Er..refer to the rest of my post, since i said a lot of stuff that went ignored D: I wonder why. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mishagal 19 Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Shiyou Chuu ~W.C.~ ummm, wouldn't that be like hammering the last nail in the coffin? edit. wow, that link named itself, pretty nice a system we have here Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gerard the Lone Wolf 10 Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 ummm, wouldn't that be like hammering the last nail in the coffin? Hrmm? Do elaborate, Mish. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pramit 22 Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 oh shit, you shot me down with your words filled with wisdom it takes a genius to understand one, it takes a newb to underestimate a genius. k, now i understand Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mishagal 19 Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Hrmm? Do elaborate, Mish. ahh, sorry, I totally misread your text. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.