What would you have done? (Grisaia Amane route spoilers)

[censuur 10]

So basically, if you've read the route then by now you've probably realized that

 

 

Probably couldn't survive in her own back yard, the amount of ways to survive the set of circumstances this so called "genius" utterly failed to realize are so considerable I couldn't help but ponder them, and I figure it might be interesting to discuss just what YOU would have done under these circumstances, how you would have reacted and also, how realistic those ideas would ultimately be.

 

First of all, let me separate these categories for the sake of clarity;

 

Survival by rescue(simple): Simple enough, due to whatever plans you come up with you manage to get rescued, assuming the perspective of a group of "normal" schoolgirls, no geniuses available.

Survival by rescue(advanced): Basically you have mcGuyver at your disposal, your genius group member has a font of knowledge capable of absurd feats of trivia and know-how (yet without the extremely "convenient" gaps in them that Kazuki had) but still human and she has one arm broken/unusable

 

Survival by escape(simple): Same as before, you don't sit around for rescue and escape on your own

 

Survival by escape(advanced): Same as before, though don't suggest the magical appearance of edible plants/animals, the conditions remain the same

 

Hard mode solo survival: Basically, think of a plausible scenario in which Kazuki could have survived the events that transpired, note that it is basically indisputable that her arm was broken, but she might have tricked Amane in some other ways at least. Take significant note of the fact that in the end, she was assaulted by a group of people more physically fit, fed and focused than her (they had absolutely nothing holding them back from killing her at that point) and she had a broken arm. Honestly I'm drawing a total blank on this one

 

First off, let's get the obvious bullshit out of the way:

:: A camping trip in the middle of nowhere would have a contingency, they knew their phones wouldn't work, which means they should have been sensible enough to bring a flare, we can excuse this by assuming they're retarded and forgot, or the flares got lost/damaged somehow

:: A search and rescue attempt would have easily found them considering the nature of the accident (left behind tire rubber and massive brake-marks on the road) even considering they went off-road they didn't take a massive detour and a search party would have found them under 3 days flat, assume there is no search party for the sake of the argument

:: Why didn't the compass work? Proximity to magnetized rock! Obviously any moron would solve this problem by walking into the jungle where the compass would resume function, assume for the sake of this topic that you have no compass

:: In your scenario, every member of the group must survive, you are not allowed to leave anyone to die

:: Food is scare, under no condition does your groups food situation improve until you manage to "survive"

 

I'll also give a brief example/my own thoughts on each category:

 

Survival by rescue(simple)

Really simple, so I'll keep it simple: Set fire + fuel with wet cloth + watch massive cloud of black smoke form + wait until anyone notices, you can easily keep fire going for several days creating plenty of thick smoke + Wait for inevitable investigation and rescue. Estimate is about 2-3 days at most until rescue

 

 

Survival by rescue(advanced)

mcGuyver couldn't be more pleased, you have an entire bus full of tools with which to make something to draw attention of the world at large, lets play on the previous idea a bit and simply transform what fuel we can gather (which was apparently enough to make a sorts of toilet) and some other simple scraps into a makeshift smoke bomb, have it all stuck in a container and launch it up to the road using a catapult, where the contents will scatter and spread across the road, catching fire though a simple trigger mechanism and creating a satisfying cloud of thick black smoke, easy for anyone to see and react to, rescue will arrive in a matter of hours. Takes 2-3 days at most until rescue

 

 

Survival by escape(simple)

As any moron would know, any cliff-face has it's limits, even if we assume there is a round mountain the road you were previously on will intersect with your patch as long as you keep following it, it's impossible to get lost and wouldn't take more than a week even in the most extreme circumstances, send your most fit members with half your food to follow the cliff surface in whichever direction takes your fancy and you will run into civilization and send help for those left at the crash site. Estimate is about 7-10 days on this one

 

 

Survival by escape(advanced)

Going to go with a rather simple one here to start, a cliff surface like this is going to be climbable one way or the other, being by the side of the road only makes that even more of a certainty, constant rainfall and natural erosion will leave cracks leading from top to bottom of such a cliff-side which are easy to scale even for an amateur, walk along the cliff until you find a part that is easy/safe to scale and confirm safety measures with your mcGuyver, go up to the road and follow it until you find help for the people back at the crash site. Alternatively, if we assume there for some magic reason is no scalable parts to this cliff, we can easily make scaffolding using all the wood we have around us and effectively applying the rubber from the tires of the vehicle as secure ties to keep it together, shouldn't take more than a day to put together. All in all it would take maybe 1-2 days before you reach civilization, call for help, and get everyone home safe.

 

 

Yes, I made this thread largely out of utter resentment towards this so-called "genius" but also because I'm legitimately interested how people would try to survive this set of circumstances, specifically if people have any plans to traverse the jungle, and how.

 

Also feel free to call out any flaws in my ideas.

Edited August 1, 2013 by censuur

[evollove 10]

I was actually thinking about a few things that were mentioned which I thought would have been a way out.

 

Like the bus fuel tank that was used as a septic tank for their outhouse. I thought it could have served as an improvised explosive device if it accumulated enough gas from their crap, and blowing it up would have been quite an attention-grabber. A brute force approach, but it might have worked.

 

I also watched a McGyver episode a long time ago, he used a potato cannon with a fire extinguisher to launch the projectile Since they had both potatoes (in the beginning) and a fire extinguisher salvaged from the bus, they could have managed to build it. Although they'd lose a lot of much-needed food.

 

Well, I don't know if my science works, point out any flaws if you must.

 

 

 

@censuur

And I think you're overestimating their capabilities.

Genius or not, Kazuki IS still a 1st year middle schooler. Not much going on in the physical department there. Same goes to the rest of them, even when you consider them being in the basketball team and all. Not to mention having two seriously wounded classmates. And their teacher is a lousy excuse for a human being, finding himself in a situation with a harem of middle-school girls and a lack of societal norms to need to conform to, I can't imagine rationality being in his head for long.

 

Edited August 1, 2013 by evollove

[censuur 10]

@censuur

And I think you're overestimating their capabilities.

Genius or not, Kazuki IS still a 1st year middle schooler. Not much going on in the physical department there. Same goes to the rest of them, even when you consider them being in the basketball team and all. Not to mention having two seriously wounded classmates. And their teacher is a lousy excuse for a human being, finding himself in a situation with a harem of middle-school girls and a lack of societal norms to need to conform to, I can't imagine rationality being in his head for long.

 

The main problem is the inconsistency in her repertoire, she knows exactly how to guide Amane with little but written instructions, knows how to apply advanced medical care, which plants are edible and even displays social prowess to the point of predicting the behavior of a group of highly unstable teenage girls despite having little to no social experience. Even considering she read a staggering number of books, the problem remains that books generally do not contain conclusive information, certainty based of second hand experience, let alone accuracy, is utterly absurd. Yet Kazuki managed all that just fine, if anything I find that I am underestimating her capabilities, but the biggest flaw in the Amane route was that it had no characters, people changed completely when the plot demanded it. Need a desperate struggle to survive? Your genius is only genius in the sense that she makes the experience as slow and excruciating as possible offering only a completely nonsensical last minute escape. Need some last minute drama? Your spymaster with lauded absurd capabilities completely fails to notice what would be a dangerous individual even to the casual observer, walking headlong into a trap he should have seen coming miles away. If Yuuji would logically walk into a trap there is no way he could also be competent at his job, which he was said to be. Lastly the homicidal father makes no sense whatsoever, he fires a shot at the pair and then casually goes explaining himself, he had absolutely no reason to fire the first shot whatsoever AND have the desire to explain himself, they simply psychologically contradict each other, same as the fact that he was homicidal in the first place, the sheer combination of utterly deranged mentality and his "competence" in ultimately carry out his "revenge" again completely contradict each other.

 

I absolutely despise characters like Kazuki, they are geniuses only in the sense that they "know" whatever the plot requires them to know, but are ultimately completely incompetent and incapable of showing any legitimate intelligence. the worst part [spoiler=Possible Grisaia 2 spoilers if you're extremely dense] is that she "somehow" managed to survive an attack by a group of assailants that was greater in both number and fitness, all the while lacking the use of one of her arms, then also managed to survive the whole thing, apparently not even being exhausted/injured after the whole ordeal, they also drop far too obvious hints that she is still alive, the rational Yuuji making an utterly incomprehensible assessment that his sister might still be alive is so out of character that it's proof enough, but their complete negligence to show what was in Kazuki's stash is another dead giveaway, other subtle hints include the entire segment of the Amane route focusing more on Kazuki than Amane, dragging on endlessly while she is there and suddenly becoming extremely abbreviated once she "dies", a character that is to be discarded doesn't get this much development in a story. It's not often that I wish a character had died, but Grisaia managed it, not sure if congratulations or jeering are in order...

 

[Erika Furudo 10]

About Kazuki:

 

[spoiler=][it`s my original theory on how she could survive: She dug a hole with a shovel using only 1 hand? Bullshit it`s more likely that she was faking her injury to appear as an almost non-existentional threat to others so they would lower their guard, in other words spare her life after a failed attempt to run. In the same manner she acquired a backpack full of sweets in the beginning, hid most of them and gave rest to Amane at the end. That would allow her to retain some energy while others started to eat corpses. It was mentioned that they`ve died in about 2-3 days due to an illness from this "fresh" meat. After that she mutilated everyone to fake her own death (carrot trick) and run away. Why she did it? Well now I`m going to make some crazy speculations:

 

1 Maybe her goal from the beginning was entirely different than rescuing them.

2 With her wicked way of talking she convinced the captain to avoid escape attempts through the forest for at least one week and just wait for rescue team (after that time they didn`t had energy needed for it and most of all morale).

3 She helped Amane only because she really started to like her.

4 It was all her test to be accepted into some elite espionage organization (that`s why no rescue team arrived )]

 

Edited August 1, 2013 by Erika Furudo

[censuur 10]

Honestly no need for the spoiler tags so much, this is a spoiler thread after all.

 

Anyway, her injury was very real, at the start they clearly state that her arm was visibly broken, even assuming she nursed it perfectly and was feeding herself properly it wouldn't have healed so well and so quickly. Assuming once more that she was well-fed throughout the ordeal (certainly possible) and that she wanted to keep most people there just for the sake of faking her own death (the idea that you can fool forensics using said "carrot trick" is laughably absurd, and the corpses wouldn't have been stripped to the bone so rapidly to make a convincing show of it in the first place)

 

But this does bring up another interesting challenge for thought, I suppose, I've added it to the first post

[Erika Furudo 10]

[spoiler= Kazuki][Don`t forget that they were cooking and eating the corpses, that would make identifying every piece of meat a lot harder if not impossible and it was mentioned that DNA test weren`t done, however I don`t remember why.

 

Her arm wasn`t visibly broken, Kazuki herself said that the bone is only cracked at most. ]

 

 

It`s important to not only use spoiler tags, but also to put the msg inside in [ brackets ] otherwise it all appears in activity stream (at the top of the site click on "What`s new?"). A lot of people are checking if there are new posts there.

 

[spoiler= Another reason][Why they didn`t kill her? Dead meat + high temperature = incredible fast rotting. They already had few corpses in their magazine, so they simply decided to keep her alive for later.]

 

Edited August 1, 2013 by Erika Furudo

[censuur 10]

[spoiler=Kazuki] A cracked arm is in many cases worse than a broken one, a broken bone can be set, a cracked bone will often need to be surgically repaired or removed, also even when stripping human meat from the bones, unless you have dedicated tools for the job (and something to wash the bones with) you will leave quite a lot of tissue on the bones, due to variance in body sizes it would be obvious to see through the absurd trick of re-arranging bones even to a casual observer, let alone a forensic analyst, the bodies would also be retrieved as complete as possible for burial purposes so it's not like they wouldn't have bothered to try and assemble the pieces properly

 

 

[spoiler=Another reason] A very good argument, though I do have some difficulty accepting such rational and deliberate long-term planning especially considering the mental state of the pursuers, keeping her alive at her near starved state would also require food in an of itself, while they could have just killed her and have even better meals. That aside though, they didn't just kill the people at the camp either, just feeding off the dead (somewhat sensible, considering their lack of knowledge on the matter) The key problem here is that Kazuki and Amane very strongly antagonized the group by running away, being in a deranged mental state due to starvation and the chemical side-effects of consuming human mean they wouldn't even recognize her as food but rather as "a threat"

 

Even leaving all that aside, assuming they captured her they wouldn't leave her in a position where she could escape, her handicap of an unusable arm makes it utterly impossible to escape her capture before her own demise. However, let's assume she planned everything out beforehand and actively poisoned the meat, causing her captors to die shortly after her capture, leaving Amane a vivid memory of "her death" to make her setting up her own demise as more believable, having a witness and all.

 

The plan has some glaring flaws of course, there was absolutely no indication that Amane would be able to survive so that would be a rather absurd gamble to take, there was also not a single guarantee they would capture her rather than kill her on the spot like the pack of deranged monkeys they were reduced to at the time. My final thought on the matter would be that there are simply far too many risks and uncertain factors for this to have been "planned from the start", unless I'm missing something here

 

Edited August 1, 2013 by censuur

[Erika Furudo 10]

[spoiler=][

 

1 All except one person were girls of the same age and mostly similar build, what`s more a lot of bones would be probably destroyed/damaged by cooking on fire, by teeth when they were eating them or maybe simply for fun? Who knows what they were doing with them. For sure cutting people into small pieces tends to disrupt their bones a bit.

2 Kazuki had enough time to hid a lot of body parts so that no one could find them. If you can`t find a corpse of one person that`s suspicious and allows you to think that maybe she`s alive, but if you can`t find parts of corpses of many people now you start to think of a reason like wild animals or something instead of searching for survivors.

3 Cracked bone isn`t really that serious as long as it`s just a light case, I had a cracked wrist myself once, didn`t even noticed it for 2 days until it started to swell and hurt a bit, it took me 2 weeks to fully recover. And I still think she was faking it ;p]

 

Edited August 1, 2013 by Erika Furudo

[Erika Furudo 10]

[spoiler=Another reason]

[ A very good argument, though I do have some difficulty accepting such rational and deliberate long-term planning especially considering the mental state of the pursuers, keeping her alive at her near starved state would also require food in an of itself, while they could have just killed her and have even better meals. That aside though, they didn't just kill the people at the camp either, just feeding off the dead (somewhat sensible, considering their lack of knowledge on the matter) The key problem here is that Kazuki and Amane very strongly antagonized the group by running away, being in a deranged mental state due to starvation and the chemical side-effects of consuming human mean they wouldn't even recognize her as food but rather as "a threat"]

 

[she was a frail little girl with one arm cracked (she was faking it I`m not going to change my opinion on this matter xD), not much of a treat at all. Also with her silver tongue convincing them to eat her later and until then to have fun with her in any way they want is very possible. ]

 

[The plan has some glaring flaws of course, there was absolutely no indication that Amane would be able to survive so that would be a rather absurd gamble to take, there was also not a single guarantee they would capture her rather than kill her on the spot like the pack of deranged monkeys they were reduced to at the time. My final thought on the matter would be that there are simply far too many risks and uncertain factors for this to have been "planned from the start", unless I'm missing something here]

 

[in this theory Amane`s survival was more like a bonus objective for Kazuki, and she did everything she could to raise her chances even a bit, rest was in Amane hands. Even if this wasn`t planned from the start, being able to adapt to any situation should be possible for someone they call a "genius" right? And no one said she didn`t took any gambles at all, no pain no gain heh. ]

 

Edited August 1, 2013 by Erika Furudo

[censuur 10]

 

[Take my word for it, she wasn't faking it, though proof would be considered a spoiler.

 

1. Kazuki was actually the only "small" girl, also they weren't chewing the meat from the bones (even if they did it would still leave plenty of tissue and ligaments on it) It's rather easy for modern forensics to assemble a skeleton, misplacing a bone from someone of Kazuki's stature with one of the other members at the camp wasn't going to happen. Though you can consider the option of outside interference, this would answer a lot of the questions like "why was there no rescue" or "how the fuck did professional forensics fail to know the difference between bones from a different set" The problem with this theory is both Amane and the male teacher. First off, the male teacher shouldn't have had any problems finding civilization, his behavior makes no sense whatsoever and his uncanny ability to make it back to camp is utterly silly. Second, Amane's appearance would counteract any under-the-table handling by whoever was interfering with the rescue efforts, a survivor turning up on their own like that would have everyone and their dog wondering what happened with the rescue efforts, and the relatives of the deceased would certainly want to know what the hell happened that made them unsuccessful.

 

2. The idea is somewhat sound, but there were no wild animals to speak of, not to mention by the time the corpses would be found it wouldn't be more than a day since they had died, even considering extremely rapid dismemberment of all the corpses the time-span for Kazuki to execute this series of events is downright ludicrous, not to mention it wouldn't fool anybody with access to modern forensic equipment, there were also too many "questions" regarding the events there to suggest a forensic investigation never really happened without CLEARLY indicating outside interference, exposing it at the same time.

 

3. A cracked bone in your arm is a very serious injury, especially the method in which it was cracked, it would leave fragments of bone scattered throughout her arm causing swelling and the arm itself would probably be unusable for the rest of her life if not treated quickly, even assuming she wasn't malnourished at any point in this the simple pain and nerve inflammation would cause significant stress and drain on her mental state, causing physical fatigue as an inevitable result. As for your wrist injury, a wrist is a delicate yet durable connection of bones, a crack in your wrist isn't nearly as severe as a crack in one of the bones in your arm, as both the force required to crack such a large bone, and the subsequent effect thereof, are beyond compare to that of a wrist injury.]

 

 

Lastly, if you're still convinced she was faking it...

[spoiler=Extreme Ultra Hyper spoiler][

]

 

Edited August 1, 2013 by censuur

[Erika Furudo 10]

I`ve run out of arguments so further discussion would be just a silly attempt to prove you`re wrong. Anyway now I`m even more interested in 2nd and 3rd Grisaia, to see what really happened there.

 

Just one more thing:

 

:: Why didn't the compass work? Proximity to magnetized rock! Obviously any moron would solve this problem by walking into the jungle where the compass would resume function, assume for the sake of this topic that you have no compass

 

A bit of trivia, a lot of cheap compasses when put to a close proximity of a strong magnet won`t ever again work correctly, and I doubt they had a military grade one.

Edited August 1, 2013 by Erika Furudo

[censuur 10]

I thank you for your contributions, you were very insightful in your theories, I'm personally a bit anxious towards Grisaia 2-3 as the Amane route left me with a bad aftertaste, the idea of the worst of it being potentially continued is somewhat disheartening, but your arguments so far leave me to believe that they might still come up with a reasonable explanation for it all.

[gokudera 10]

I thank you for your contributions, you were very insightful in your theories, I'm personally a bit anxious towards Grisaia 2-3 as the Amane route left me with a bad aftertaste, the idea of the worst of it being potentially continued is somewhat disheartening, but your arguments so far leave me to believe that they might still come up with a reasonable explanation for it all.

 

 

If your problem with Amane's route is what happened in Angelic's Howl,

 

[spoiler=Grisaia sequels spoiler] There should be at least two flashback in the games, one in the third that will explain what happened after Kazuki and Amane split, and another one (I think in the second game), that will involve Amane and Kazuki having sex.

The main story seems to follow Amane and Makina's route in the sequel, though from what I read about the sequel and Amane's route, it could be only related to the fact that Yuyii decided to try being promoted in his job

 

[stentor 10]

First off, let's get the obvious bullshit out of the way:

:: A camping trip in the middle of nowhere would have a contingency, they knew their phones wouldn't work, which means they should have been sensible enough to bring a flare, we can excuse this by assuming they're retarded and forgot, or the flares got lost/damaged somehow

:: A search and rescue attempt would have easily found them considering the nature of the accident (left behind tire rubber and massive brake-marks on the road) even considering they went off-road they didn't take a massive detour and a search party would have found them under 3 days flat, assume there is no search party for the sake of the argument

:: Why didn't the compass work? Proximity to magnetized rock! Obviously any moron would solve this problem by walking into the jungle where the compass would resume function, assume for the sake of this topic that you have no compass

:: The camping trip was to an organized campground with activities for a bunch of a middle schoolers, not the "middle of nowhere." They were lost coming back.

:: They went off-road on an old road that literally no one used anymore and was not even on the maps, Ochi only knew about it because he was a local. This is discussed at length.

:: The entire valley was carved out by a meteor that left magnetic rock throughout the area, compasses are useless in the jungle too! Remember when Yuuji is trekking back up with her at the end and tries his?

 

 

Survival by rescue(simple)

Really simple, so I'll keep it simple: Set fire + fuel with wet cloth + watch massive cloud of black smoke form + wait until anyone notices, you can easily keep fire going for several days creating plenty of thick smoke + Wait for inevitable investigation and rescue. Estimate is about 2-3 days at most until rescue

 

:: This point is actually addressed in a later game. The simple answer is Kazuki encouraged the toilet plan because she was afraid someone would try this exact bright idea with the gasoline. Gasoline fires are VERY dangerous and can't be put out with water - water will only spread the oil around, increasing the size of the flames. They try to make fires using branches in the game, but because the wood is damp, they are not able to get enough smoke to go through the heavy canopy above.

 

Survival by rescue(advanced)

mcGuyver couldn't be more pleased, you have an entire bus full of tools with which to make something to draw attention of the world at large, lets play on the previous idea a bit and simply transform what fuel we can gather (which was apparently enough to make a sorts of toilet) and some other simple scraps into a makeshift smoke bomb, have it all stuck in a container and launch it up to the road using a catapult, where the contents will scatter and spread across the road, catching fire though a simple trigger mechanism and creating a satisfying cloud of thick black smoke, easy for anyone to see and react to, rescue will arrive in a matter of hours. Takes 2-3 days at most until rescue

 

:: A toilet is very simple. A catapult is not. This isn't realistic considering their lack of raw material and handicraft knowhow.

 

Survival by escape(simple)

As any moron would know, any cliff-face has it's limits, even if we assume there is a round mountain the road you were previously on will intersect with your patch as long as you keep following it, it's impossible to get lost and wouldn't take more than a week even in the most extreme circumstances, send your most fit members with half your food to follow the cliff surface in whichever direction takes your fancy and you will run into civilization and send help for those left at the crash site. Estimate is about 7-10 days on this one

 

:: This isn't a one-sided cliff face. As the game makes clear, it's a gorge with walls hanging over on both sides that are not possible to climb because of the meteor impact. Also goes for the other option. The forest is their only physical way out.