phantasm 10 Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Sorry, have to respond to this.. especially since Ever17 is in my top 5 VN... this is srs business DO NOT READ THIS IF YOU HAVEN"T FINISHED EVER17 SPOILLLZZZ [spoiler=Ever17]Sorry, there is no way you would have the plot of Ever17 without romance. Takeshi and Tsugumi having the twins was a MAJOR twist and plot factor. I mean, you can't say in my face that romance didn't play a factor in characters. I understand it isn't the main point like in Clannad, but it still plays a very large role. 4 of the 5 routes show a romantic relationship developing. In the true route, we see the entire family back together and Tsugumi and Takeshi reunited once again. Even after that, we see huge hints in the true route of You and Hokuto getting together, just like they did in her regular route. You can't say with a straight face that romance played no role in this VN. Romance is still not a main factor because Takeshi and Tsugumi having twins is definitely a major twist but it can be done without Romance.If someone says about having child,what is the first thing you think about ? stuff like family-life come to your mind but definitely not romance.Also only three routes contain Romance(there is no obivious romance in true route and Sara route) and among them,only Tsugumi route use romance effectively. Other routes are just characters introduction with a bit of Romance mixing in.You say in the true end,we see the entire family and Tsugumi and Takeshi reunited again,where does the Romance comes into play in that scene ?The main point of that scene is to show the family having a happy ending not about Tsugumi and Takeshi being lovely-dovey.All of the routes also contain no flirting scene(even in Tsugumi and You route) Maybe your definition of Romance is different from mine. Clannad is a romantic anime but the main theme is Drama ,not Romance True Romance anime should be one like Kanon(emphasizing only the romance factors of the story) Air is definitely not a Romance anime .(Romance is there ,but it gives you a heart-warning family feeling than romantic feeling) That is how I define Romance.Overall feeling is what matters. I finished Hoshimemo and I get a romantic and cute feeling so it is a Romance VN and when I finished Ever17,the only thing I feel is feeling of accomplishment and awesomeness ,no Romance comes to my mind. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
OneManArmy 82 Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 topic Everybody has a different definition of romance anyway. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gerard the Lone Wolf 10 Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 (edited) Overall feeling is what matters. I finished Hoshimemo and I get a romantic and cute feeling so it is a Romance VN And if you don't get such feeling, that means romance isn't a main factor in Hoshimemo. I see. I think I need to remind you that what you can't feel doesn't meant that it doesn't exist. And vice versa. Also, "Romance VN" and "VN with romance as one of the main factor" are two different thing. Clannad is a romantic anime but the main theme is Drama ,not Romance Remind me, are you talking about Visual Novel or anime? Again, that's a different medium with a different method to convey characters feelings. Anyway, since when are you talking about theme? You're talking about whether romance play a major part or not, and not whether Romance is or isn't a theme of that VN. G-Senjou no Maou doesn't have Classical Music as it's theme. But Classical Music play a major part in that VN. Even the title itself is music related. Am I wrong or am I wrong? Air is definitely not a Romance anime .(Romance is there ,but it gives you a heart-warning family feeling than romantic feeling) Definitely eh? So you're saying that this is a fact. I see. Heart-warming family feeling eh? That is romantic. Anyway, I'm just gonna throw this here. General definition of romance: (a) A feeling of excitement and mystery associated with love. (b) Ardent emotional attachment or involvement between people; love Everybody has a different definition of romance anyway. Human can't live in a world without friction. When one is trying to convince other people that E17 doesn't have romance, it's only natural for others who has a different set of opinion to opposed it. Hence, the discussion. Edited October 11, 2012 by Gerard the Lone Wolf Quote Link to post Share on other sites
phantasm 10 Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 And if you don't get such feeling, that means romance isn't a main factor in Hoshimemo. I see. Where does "If" comes from my post ?There is no "If" in my post. I think I need to remind you that what you can't feel doesn't meant that it doesn't exist Thank or so I say Remind me, are you talking about Visual Novel or anime? I stated Clannad is a romantic anime So it is obvious that I am talking about anime Anyway, since when are you talking about theme? Nope.I don't say about theme.It is just to state my definition of Romance. Heart-warming family feeling eh? That is romantic. heart-warming + family =Romance ?? .That's new to me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gerard the Lone Wolf 10 Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Where does "If" comes from my post ?There is no "If" in my post. There is if in my post. Thank or so I say You're welcome or so I say it is obvious that I am talking about anime which is stupid because we're talking about VN Nope.I don't say about theme. So you don't say about theme. It is just to state my definition of Romance. So you do say about theme. Anyway, romance that play a major part and romance as a theme are two different thing. heart-warming + family =Romance Learn how to read. I said: "Heart-warming family feeling eh? That is romantic" General definition of romantic: Inclined toward or suggestive of the feeling of excitement and mystery associated with love. Family love IS romantic in it's own way. That's new to me. Welcome to the vast world then. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ultimecea 22 Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 STOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! im back.. and i want you guys to quit >.> dont go off topic here~ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
OneManArmy 82 Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 When one is trying to convince other people that E17 doesn't have romance, it's only natural for others who has a different set of opinion to opposed it. Dude, this discussion already ate 2 whole pages of comments. Sure, it is natural to state your opinion but this discussion will most likely turn into a never ending story. I think I need to remind you that what you can't feel doesn't meant that it doesn't exist. Cool stuff bro. So you're telling me about a thing I can't feel...but what does this change? I'm still unable to feel it. And if you can't feel love, just for example, then something like love doesn't exist for YOU. Because that's what love is, a feeling. And dammit, if phantasm's saying that a visual novel is romantic then it IS romantic, for HIM! Seriously, since when are you allowed to decide if the feelings of other people are wrong?! Some people are more sensitive to romance than others, just accept it. Clannad is a romantic anime but the main theme is Drama ,not Romance ...and what was the fundament of clannad's drama? Right, the relationship of nagisa and tomoya. Romance wasn't a main theme? Don't make me laugh man. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ultimecea 22 Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 baa-chan..i think he mean after story for the dramatic part.. though i hate to admit...clannad 1st season is bout nagisa and tomoya >>> Quote Link to post Share on other sites
VNHunter 12 Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 STOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! im back.. and i want you guys to quit >.> dont go off topic here~ Such irony... you were the cause of it anyway... XD Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gerard the Lone Wolf 10 Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 (edited) Such irony... you were the cause of it anyway... XD Nah, you got it wrong Hunter. >_> It start from here. lolz Edited October 11, 2012 by Gerard the Lone Wolf Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Whitetragedy 23 Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 I don't think Wanderer is here anymore so... Btw: I'm on the fraction that says that there are major romance in ever17. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wanderer 10 Posted October 12, 2012 Author Share Posted October 12, 2012 (edited) I don't think Wanderer is here anymore so... Btw: I'm on the fraction that says that there are major romance in ever17. Well, I've kept a cursory glance on the thread, but admittedly the latest discussion held little interest for me (if anything, it encouraged me to make ever 17 even more of a low priority). In the meanwhile, I nibbled at the common route of Fortune Arterial and achieved the first two endings in Guilty the Sin. To my considerable relief and pleasure, the latter game's supernatural elements all in all seemed more urban (dark) fantasy (which I fancy) than horror (which I loathe). The heroines' voluptous character design seems definitely appealing, too. Of course, nothing like the overall visual pleasure of Fortune Arterial. Edited October 13, 2012 by Wanderer Quote Link to post Share on other sites
desi 53 Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Of course, nothing like the overall visual pleasure of Fortune Arterial. August makes pretty nice eroges in terms of visuals. Check out Brighter Than Dawning Blue when that comes out after the editing phase is done with. Aiyoku no Eustia will also be a very nice one to check out. It'll be quite a while until that one is done though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wanderer 10 Posted October 13, 2012 Author Share Posted October 13, 2012 (edited) August makes pretty nice eroges in terms of visuals. Check out Brighter Than Dawning Blue when that comes out after the editing phase is done with. Indeed. But too bad the English patch shall be for the all-ages version, even if I very well understand the reasons for the choice (expanded version). At first glance, Yoakemae Yori Ruriiro Na - Brighter Than Dawning Blue does not seem a romance-lite game, and chaste romance definitely annoys me. Aiyoku no Eustia will also be a very nice one to check out. It'll be quite a while until that one is done though. I would deem myself more than happy enough with a complete patch of Fortune Arterial in reasonable times. Edited October 13, 2012 by Wanderer Quote Link to post Share on other sites
desi 53 Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Indeed. But too bad the English patch shall be for the all-ages version, even if I very well understand the reasons for the choice (expanded version). At first glance, Yoakemae Yori Ruriiro Na - Brighter Than Dawning Blue does not seem a romance-lite game, and chaste romance definitely annoys me. I'm of the viewpoint that most h-scenes are horribly done that they don't add anything to the story. Here's a solution: Download both versions of the game... the 15+ version and the 18+ version. You can view the h-scenes in the 18+ version while reading along with the 15+ version.. might seem like a hassle, but it's a solution. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wanderer 10 Posted October 13, 2012 Author Share Posted October 13, 2012 (edited) I'm of the viewpoint that most h-scenes are horribly done that they don't add anything to the story. Here's a solution: Download both versions of the game... the 15+ version and the 18+ version. You can view the h-scenes in the 18+ version while reading along with the 15+ version.. might seem like a hassle, but it's a solution. Done well in comparison to the rest of the story or not, h-scenes in a VN with a significant romance element bring fulfillment to that component of the plot. It's like lethal combat in an action-adventure story. Done well or not, the killing is an integral and necessary part of the story for aesthetic and narrative reasons. Moreover, they add realism to the story: in real life, successful romance after early adolescence most definitely does not typically remain chaste for long without compelling and rare reasons. If anything, in my opinion h-scenes in eroges are often a higher-quality depiction of mainstream sex than Western "porn with a story" (of course, here I refer to slice of life romance and not tentacle hentai and stuff). Third, one of the elements I find most attractive in Japanese culture is its much more relaxed attitude towards sexuality and its depiction. Having said that, I'm the first to feverishly speed-click my way through really poorly-done h-scenes; nonetheless, I much prefer to know they exist and I have a choice whether to see them or not. If anything, I'm much more annoyed by the fact that non-h key scenes (such as endings) in many eroges are often not readily available in the scenes list alongside h-scenes, and I'm forced to create ad-hoc saves to have them readily available for a second viewing, than by the lower qualiy of h-scenes in comparison to other parts of the story. Edited October 13, 2012 by Wanderer Quote Link to post Share on other sites
desi 53 Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Even if I find most of the h-scenes to be horribly done, I don't really mind it for the most part.. but I do find it to be it to be kind of stupid in most VNs. It's usually overdone and obviously just thrown in so people are all "OMG SEX FUCK YEAH FAPFAPFAP!" People end up ignoring VNs without a 18+ tag. Not a shot on you btw, just saying in general. Plus, you don't have to show explicit sex to show intimacy, that's honestly something that's very cheap for a writer to do in my opinion. "How do I show they love each other... OH YEAH BY SHOWING THEM PLOWING each other." Add some smacking and slurping sounds and we got a stew going. There are VNs WITHOUT the 18+ tag that handle sex very maturely.. I can think of two off the top of my head.. could be considered a spoiler if I mention them, so I'll just leave it at that. In these VNs, there was no need to show explicit sex scenes.. it would diminish who they were... they would go from being couples in an intimate relationship to FAP fodder. These VNs that i'm thinking about have MUCH more of an impact because you don't get to see the scenes. In the end, sex does end up selling... it's easier to throw in some h-scenes to appease a bunch of people. WOW THIS IS SO OFFTOPIC. Anyways, just my two cents. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
OneManArmy 82 Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Anyways, just my two cents. Sir, I've nothing to add. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wanderer 10 Posted October 14, 2012 Author Share Posted October 14, 2012 Theoretically speaking, yes it does not need to be EXPLICIT sex scenes, in that regard it's a matter of taste more than anything else, but it still feels much more fitting and natural if the story definitely shows that all-the-way physical intimacy and erotic passion is the natural, default outcome to a successful romantic relationship between grown-ups. Leave kissing and holding hands as fulfillment to childhood crushes, I say. Yes sex sells just like violence, and for this reason both of them are often added to stories with flimsy reasons. All the same, decently-done erotica and violence do add something stories where they are somewhat fitting. Sex does fit in a story with romance and violence does fit in a story with action and conflict. I've completed Guilty the Sin. Not top of the scale but fairly good. At least Ok in my scale. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wanderer 10 Posted October 16, 2012 Author Share Posted October 16, 2012 (edited) And now I have cleared the common route in Fortune Arterial. As good as, if not better than, I expected. A top-notch VN, quite recommended. My congrats to the translation/editing team, it reads quite well. Now I feel rather sad that I won't be able to complete it for the Universe knows how many months, but it was inevitable and expected. I might go on and play Kanade's route, but I dunno if doing it would be worthwhile, since I can't touch the Erika or Haruna ones yet Kiriha is the least interesting route to me, no matter how gorgeous the character looks (but I still prefer Erika), since I can't stand the silent/emotionless heroine type and I loathe the Who Wants to Live Forever theme (I looked at a few spoilers on tvtropes.org, and I'm most definitely a Living Forever is Awesome guy). Edited October 16, 2012 by Wanderer Quote Link to post Share on other sites
noire126 10 Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Not sure but you'll probably enjoy Sengoku Rance. ok thanks a lot ima try it zehahahaha Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wanderer 10 Posted October 21, 2012 Author Share Posted October 21, 2012 (edited) Done playing the common and translated routes of Fortune Arterial, Dracu-Riot, and Hinomaru. As it concerns FA, Kanada's route felt fairly heartwarming, even if her problem feels a little forced (a common problem in eroge plots) and Kiriha's was really not so bad to my tastes as I expected (her character gets some decent depth, and she's really gorgeous). No doubt this may rank as one of the best eroges I've played, and I got even more impatient to get the translation of the other routes (especially Erika and true; she's my preferred heroine, and I wish to get the full vampire plot). Oh well. The common route of Dracu-riot was a a very appealing mix of comedy with fanservice and action, and I'm impatient to get into the romance stuff (all heroines have good selling points with me, except maybe the human loli sharpshooter). Definitely another very good eroge. Hinomaru, well, I like comedy, but this one packs almost a bit too much silliness to be thoroughly enjoyable. Not bad, but I can see why it is nowhere as popular as the other two. Hmm, I suppose it means something when one's list of played games has grown too big to fit in one's signature. Edited October 21, 2012 by Wanderer Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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