Hiya4321 10 Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Don't get me wrong, I like tsudere's but i just think that lately they're overdoing it a bit. It's a good trait and all but I don't think it needs to be in every anime. What are your thoughts on this? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SaruDa 11 Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 I wouldn't mind Tsundere if they followed more of a classical model. Kinda like Asuka, it'd be nice if they'd be cold and pretend not to care, but have a real reason why they do it and not go out of their way to beat up the protag for no reason. I feel like modern tsundere(I'm looking at you taiga!) are just bipolar tropes with no real substance to them besides their "tsundere" caricature. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Masao 10 Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 I wouldn't mind Tsundere if they followed more of a classical model. Kinda like Asuka, it'd be nice if they'd be cold and pretend not to care, but have a real reason why they do it and not go out of their way to beat up the protag for no reason. I feel like modern tsundere(I'm looking at you taiga!) are just bipolar tropes with no real substance to them besides their "tsundere" caricature. I think he is totally right. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Slasherturtle 11 Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 I hate Louise from Zero no tsukaima.....and if there is a character that is Louise-esque then I will probably consider disliking that character as well.(Well, depends. I don't hate Taiga -__-) I don't hate all tsunderes just the ones that show or act in an utterly illogical manner + extreme violence. Well, its not like Saito is prince charming anyway Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Haika 12 Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 I think the difference between good and bad comes from how much character depth the characters actually have. Are they a character who just happens to be Tsundere as part of it, or are they a Tsundere as their whole character. If it's the latter and the tsundere part is everything that defines them, then it usually ends up being a bit lackluster. That's my 0.02$ dropped into the bucket. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nobu 12 Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 I hate Louise from Zero no tsukaima..... HELL YES! AGREE! LOUISE HATER CLUB! Aside from that, tsuns are cute but it gets annoying once they pass a certain point of tsun-ness. Basically, a Haqua , is perfect, anything beyond her lvl of tsun can die Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shunrei 10 Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 i love Tsunderes, they make anime perfect, i love their personality and .. well they make an anime perfect Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Maxar 13 Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 I can't help but like Tsundere. Though it sometimes definitely is annoying, when they ruin nearly every moment, by ending up totally violent to certain persons. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dan. 11 Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 (edited) I think the difference between good and bad comes from how much character depth the characters actually have. Are they a character who just happens to be Tsundere as part of it, or are they a Tsundere as their whole character. If it's the latter and the tsundere part is everything that defines them, then it usually ends up being a bit lackluster. That's my 0.02$ dropped into the bucket. I completely agree. There needs to be more to the character than just tsundere. I hate shows where all the characters are superficial, with no depth beyond the characteristics of a standard archetype. Also, personally, I prefer classic tsundere to modern, but that's also because classic tsundere characters sort of require more depth of character as the reason for their tsundere attitude and the change from tsun to dere. I don't dislike modern tsundere, but I dislike that it is used as a character, rather than an aspect of a character. And I hate it when the protagonist gets beat up all the time by every female around him when he doesn't deserve it, but that's kind of a different matter. Edited March 11, 2012 by Dan. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Masao 10 Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 HELL YES! AGREE! LOUISE HATER CLUB! Aside from that, tsuns are cute but it gets annoying once they pass a certain point of tsun-ness. Basically, a Haqua [ATTACH=CONFIG]1729[/ATTACH], is perfect, anything beyond her lvl of tsun can die Agree, Haqua is perfect Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Slasherturtle 11 Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 I love hinagiku Does she count? She's pretty tsun..and deredere. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Masao 10 Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 I love hinagiku Does she count? She's pretty tsun..and deredere. Yes, she does. (I love her too.) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Masao 10 Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Yes, she does. (I love her too.) ^ I think so. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dan. 11 Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 I love hinagiku Does she count? She's pretty tsun..and deredere. I don't know if she really counts. Tsundere characters are supposed to say they don't like the person they like when they actually do. Hinagiku is Hayate's friend as soon as they meet and she's always nice to him. And she tells Nishizawa that she likes Hayate. Tsundere characters usually deny liking the person they like and never tell anyone until they (sometimes) eventually tell the person they like. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Slasherturtle 11 Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Well, now I'm really not sure what tsundere means.... from wiki: character development process that describes a person who is initially cold and even hostile towards another person before gradually showing their warm side over time. Myself: Just some girl that can't say what she really feels to the guy. Later, shows it anyway for plot development. (actually still not sure what tsundere means) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Haika 12 Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Directly from the Fakku tag description: Tsundere (ツンデレ) is a Japanese character development process which describes a person who is initially cold and even hostile towards another person before gradually showing their warm side over time. The word is derived from the terms tsun tsun (ツンツン), meaning to turn away in disgust, and dere dere (デレデレ) meaning to show affection. That mix of aloofness and standoffishness, sometimes with even violence that eventually crumbles away into love and care. That's how I see the trait we call Tsundere. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shunrei 10 Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 I can't help but like Tsundere. Though it sometimes definitely is annoying, when they ruin nearly every moment, by ending up totally violent to certain persons. as for me, when they start to become moe moe, since when that time come they become a completely different person, well that what it means to be Tsundere tough.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Slasherturtle 11 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 (edited) Directly from the Fakku tag description: Tsundere (ツンデレ) is a Japanese character development process which describes a person who is initially cold and even hostile towards another person before gradually showing their warm side over time. The word is derived from the terms tsun tsun (ツンツン), meaning to turn away in disgust, and dere dere (デレデレ) meaning to show affection. LOL thats the same as wikipedia....damn LOL at fakku tag. Well, now I'm beginning to see nearly all of the characters that were so freely tagged with tsundere as being not tsun tsun. Hmmmm, I guess now I know I'm not really that into whiny ass bitches with messed up ego's which are violent to their partner (destructive tendencies). Oh, did I mention most of them lack any self assurance without the MC and still beat up him up. (BTW, this is for hostile type of Tsun. I'm still trying to find a cold and just cold type of tsundere...maybe Senjougahara from Bakemonogatari. But, she threatened to blind the main and kill him if he cheated. Pssh, continue searching (help me out in finding, please) ) In my perhaps awkward or reasonable sense of judgement, I can't be double standard on the whole tsundere beating tendency issue since, I wouldn't like it if the main was a girl that devoted her life to the hero and was beaten up on a regular basis. Sure, maybe they're M. But, so am I. (I think) IMO, there's a fine line between sexually stimulating /(whatever the hell you want to call it) beating that deepens the bonds between partners and just random unreasonable violence.....(for the record I don't understand love either)... Edited March 13, 2012 by Slasherturtle Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Haika 12 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I've never been fond of the violence and random beating type tsundere. It falls into that gender stereotyping that gives many more freedoms to females than to males. More of a cultural acceptance I suppose. A girl being standoffish and hitting a guy, sometimes repeatedly, is just accepted and the guy is supposed to just be fine with it. Yeah... No. A guy trying that with a girl would end up in jail. The description from wherever about Tsundere says, 'to turn away in disgust'; I find that far more acceptable than the idea of a girl bringing violence into the picture. Less so because the guy needs to be protected I suppose, than the fact he isn't allowed to stand up for himself in typical society culture(Not that the men in these situations in our media usually bother to even want to stand up for themselves), and that pisses me off. I think at the point of anime like Zero no Tsukaima it's more about S&M than a proper Tsundere. The way the main character interacts with the so-called 'tsundere' there really pushed me away after a few episodes. I thought the concept for the show held great potential and I still do, but it just irritates me to try and watch it. I get the same sort of creepy vibe from many S&M elements in anime, manga, and even some VN's. Shows like Dears really give me a headache sometimes. I suppose it's because part of me can see myself liking that type of thing, yet other parts of me yell very loudly that it's wrong and I end up being tossed in the middle like a salad. Either way, that's a bit of a tangent. But I think it all ties in with people not really understanding Tsundere, and blurring the lines between it, other character personalities, and sexual fetishes. In the end it's just a Label, and people really should try and focus more on each individual character than some vague personality concept. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SaruDa 11 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I think at the point of anime like Zero no Tsukaima it's more about S&M than a proper Tsundere. The way the main character interacts with the so-called 'tsundere' there really pushed me away after a few episodes. I thought the concept for the show held great potential and I still do, but it just irritates me to try and watch it. I get the same sort of creepy vibe from many S&M elements in anime, manga, and even some VN's. That never occurred to me before, but I really like that way of thinking of it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Slasherturtle 11 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 (edited) Well, depends what kind of abuse are we talking about. The well *cough*cough* kind or the sad emotional bitch mounting your head on a wall kind. The latter being the ill description of an S&M. How the hell are you supposed to get off on a pint-sized $^&% or whatever girl beating you to a bloody pulp. It's a sad fact that shows how much people are willing to go through for their so called love. Domestic violence isn't something that people should live with day by day because they adhere in believing in the betterment of their partner through their own self sacrifice (it should be a reciprocated exchange that should not have a definite one-sided backlash to their constitution ...like dying every day just for laughs {unless your into that, then its all reciprocal love...=__= idk}). THOSE kinds of character suffer so much for such an obscure sense of fidelity and devotion that makes the very definition of unconditional love sound repulsive IMO. The very fact that characters like Saito enjoy being oppressed in some scenes makes it acceptable at first but, the fact that he doesn't enjoy being humiliated and beaten for false accusations makes the very relationship seem frail and fake.... confusing as hell as well. An S&M anime I actually loved was MM! . The main actually enjoyed getting it and tbh I wouldn't mind taking Mio's cure any day. (I think Mio is pretty tsundere IMO) The very concept of moe and tsundere is as vague and vastly discussed as the argument of what eating utensil is the best. The definitions of cultural and personal interest are as it sounds based thoroughly on personal and cultural standpoints. The discussion of Tsundere on a whole these days has been closely related to the workings of S&M. I don’t mind the tsundere being an S&M queen. But, the problem being in that (IMO) S&M and domestic abuse are not the same. The very thought of domestic abuse is something that makes me think of "A caged bird that loves its captor and falls affectionate to the captors twisted whims, until it fails to see its own end". ( I forget if that saying was in english or was it in my native language/some other language translated into english...either way, carry on) It implies that the very idea of one-sided violence being the bread and butter in a relationship will lead to the destruction of said relationship. The discussion has probably derailed from the question somehow...Idk. Maybe it has maybe been the exact answer OP wanted. Either way, we live with the hands we are given and blahblahblah we should go play some more eroge. P.S. Like Haika said Zero no Tsukaima had a lot of potential...I've watched every single episode and still watching every updated episode and reading the whole light novel up until now and I still think it could have been better. I just don't like hating something randomly and without reason. What better way to hate something then self torture I also like tsundere more than other characters, so wish it could have been one of my favorites. Edited March 13, 2012 by Slasherturtle Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dan. 11 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I can't stand it when there's so much excessive violence. Any man in his right mind would stop associating with that girl immediately (unless he likes it). Also, IMO, the violence is supposed to stop when she turns dere. She hits him sometimes when she's tsun because she doesn't understand her feelings, but gets past it after she accepts her feelings and grows emotionally. That's how it's supposed to be (IMO). But that's more classic tsundere. A lot of newer shows have characters that are always hitting the main character and never accept their feelings, or if they do, they keep hitting him anyways so they can use the same gags over and over and the show can drag on, so they can make more money. Especially in shows where there are a whole bunch of girls that like the protagonist, why would anyone pick the violent girl that constantly beats him when there are nice, gentle girls that like him too? Violence isn't just restricted to tsundere girls, either. I watched a few episodes of a show where the protagonist was getting beaten every time he turned around by every woman around him and I couldn't stand it so I stopped watching it. Excessive violence against the protagonist always has a negative impression on me. I guess the Japanese market is different, because I feel like that kind of thing wouldn't really work here. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SaruDa 11 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Violence isn't just restricted to tsundere girls, either. I watched a few episodes of a show where the protagonist was getting beaten every time he turned around by every woman around him and I couldn't stand it so I stopped watching it. Excessive violence against the protagonist always has a negative impression on me. I guess the Japanese market is different, because I feel like that kind of thing wouldn't really work here. Was it "Bokusatsu Tenshi Dokuro-chan"? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dan. 11 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Was it "Bokusatsu Tenshi Dokuro-chan"? Nope, never heard of that one before. I can't remember the name; it was a while ago and I only watched 3 episodes. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
neptune 10 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 i don't mind tsun tsun characters, but lately theres been too many :\ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.