Harlequin 17 Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 So here i am, checking this thread thinking that it was pretty obvious what VN had most fucked up ending ever and it appears that im mistaken. People talk about Hoshizora because it wasnt as good as they wanted it to be, but it wasnt bad or completely wasted. Im not sure if people simply dont read this VN or just forget about it right after finishing it because of that ^%*&%@! ending. What am i talking about ? Sekien no Inganock. Well thread was about our own thoughts so it isnt that strange that there is many different opinions, still i find it strange that noone mentioned Sekien before. Hah, well if you put it that way it then it's probably true that it has a bad/weird ending. I haven't read it though. Was going to sooner or later, along with the other titles (Forest, Shikkoku no Sharnoth) from the same developer. The art style seems strange and different. Oh and I have NO clue whatsoever what Forest is all about. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
desi 53 Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Oh and I have NO clue whatsoever what Forest is all about. I don't think anyone does. I'm sure even Ixrec was wtfing through out the whole thing. It's apparently VERY difficult to translate, so some of the meaning might of gotten lost.. but I'll still check them out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Prince_Baka 10 Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I have NO clue whatsoever what Forest is all about. You will say the same thing long after you've finished Forest. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Helvetica Standard 17 Posted October 17, 2012 Author Share Posted October 17, 2012 I'm glad we're talking about wasted potential here (S A R C A S M) XD Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Helvetica Standard 17 Posted October 17, 2012 Author Share Posted October 17, 2012 Oh, and inb4 some VN purist starts going on about how there's no "waste of potential VN" There is, it happens, it really does. Just like your tv shows, your favourite band's latest album, movies.. sometimes they START well but fail to deliver along the way or in the end. Story of this thread. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gerard the Lone Wolf 10 Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 (edited) Oh, and inb4 some VN purist starts going on about how there's no "waste of potential VN" There is, it happens, it really does. Just like your tv shows, your favourite band's latest album, movies.. sometimes they START well but fail to deliver along the way or in the end. Story of this thread. I thought this thread has potential for flaming and bantering but looks like it went down the drain in the end after all. Where's those damn VN purist when we need them? Edited October 17, 2012 by Gerard the Lone Wolf Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Virsia 10 Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 it's true, but sometimes "it's just happens" Quote Link to post Share on other sites
battlerrules 10 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Chaos;Head is probably the biggest one I can think of, I dont even know what to say about it. Kara No Shoujo ending seemed to be lacking a bit. Sekien no Inganock ending needed a little more explanation but I understood what happened but I wish I could learn why. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Savon 11 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Kira Kira Curtain Call was such a massive disappointment. I mean it's supposed to be a fandisc so why the hell throw in a bunch of annoying new characters and barely show the characters from the original people would expect. To this day Souta is one of my least favourite protagonists. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nobu 12 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 I know I'm getting flamed for this one, but my personal "favorite deception" would be DEARDROPS. Totally agree, but i do think riho ending was a good one : Somewhere deep down, actually not that deep, i do wish he didnt have to go =/, but it was still good The rest was total trash, as most ppl already know Quote Link to post Share on other sites
censuur 10 Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Surprised I didn't see mention of Sharin no kuni, it starts out rather well and then takes a massive downhill slide toward the second half and doesn't stop sliding, some of the endings even completely ignore the events of the final chapters. School days was an interesting concept (at least what people told me it was, a deconstruction of the harem genre, was interesting) What I (we) got was pretty much a regular harem story with the characters suffering from extreme personality disorders at best, a main character that has no depth to him at all (seriously, what does he do other than act like a complete jackass? No hobbies and no motivation toward anything/anybody, what is he trying to acomplish?) and constantly changes his mind about everything. He wants his girlfriend to put out and threatens to break up (even suggests taking some time apart) when she doesn't and when she actually does he loses all interest in it and starts fantasizing about a different girl. The best part is that it's never really explained why all those girls like him in the first place (particularly jarring when one of the girls has a freaking mental breakdown because the guy she helped hook up with someone else is now out of her reach.... yeah...) Chaos;Head is also an obvious candidate here, the story actually starts off slowly and poorly, but gets going very well with the introduction of the detective character (best character in the story imo) who is, unlike the MC, actually competent, motivated and to some extent aware of what's going on. Lo and behold, toward the ending they kill him off like an incompetent chump (the events leading to his death are ridiculous) and the story ends with apparently all the girls being/had been tortured into having ESP superpowers and the MC inexplicably gaining them as well, right on time for the final showdown which ends up being nothing more than the ESP equivalent of a staring contest. I'd have loved if Chaos;Head actually spent more time following the detective and him having an actual leading role in the ending, the detective is the only character with somewhat of a clue as to what's going on and seems to be the only character who is actually doing something and getting somewhere. Dissapointing to say the least. As for DearDrops, honestly the premise was the only exciting bit (violin is my favorite instrument) which gets shot immediately due to the violin MC picking up a guitar for 90% of the story, turning it into another bland as fuck rockband with all the same KiraKira bullshit stuck to it. Cheers to when the MC finally does pick his violin up again toward the end of the Riho route but too little too late. Another one I haven't seen mentioned would be Soul Link, I was excited for this one because it was one of the few stories I'd found where the MC is actually very competent at what he does (I had recently ragequit ever17 because I can't stand clueless MC's) But lo and behold, it was a fucking bait and switch where the competent MC gets killed off halfway through the story and it switches to a clueless incompetent (but ultimately miraculously successful) MC. God. Damnit Soul-Link. I suppose Hoshizora no Memoria should also be mentioned, but the main problem for that one is that the best girl is one of the first (Komomo or w/e the twin was called) and the girls just get progressively more loli/retarded and there isn't really an overarching story that ties all the stories together (they bring up a lot of stuff in the twin's routes which is never really mentioned or heard of after that) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
OneManArmy 82 Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 and it switches to a clueless incompetent (but ultimately miraculously successful) MC. Don't remind me of that wimp. =\ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
desi 53 Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Surprised I didn't see mention of Sharin no kuni, it starts out rather well and then takes a massive downhill slide toward the second half and doesn't stop sliding, some of the endings even completely ignore the events of the final chapters. Even if the epilogues were sort of weak for the heroines, I thought chapter 4 and 5 were the absolute best parts of SNK. Natsumi + the twist(s) in the last chapter were the best part for me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
censuur 10 Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 ^ fucking full of spoilers. You dumbass. There's this thing called a spoiler tag you know. I figured with this type of thread spoilers were a given, I mention the title of each vn specifically so you can avoid reading about that one if you haven't read it before. Yes, I'm aware I could treat everyone that reads this thread as a retard and pander them, or I could just treat people like mature adults that they're supposed to be in reading here and have them think, and avoid content they don't want, by themselves. Apologies if thats a problem, do let me know if you still want me to add spoiler tags afterall. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gerard the Lone Wolf 10 Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 (edited) Nah, I realized that it's useless to talk to dumbass and deleted my post. Edited October 20, 2012 by Gerard the Lone Wolf Quote Link to post Share on other sites
censuur 10 Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Even if the epilogues were sort of weak for the heroines, I thought chapter 4 and 5 were the absolute best parts of SNK. Natsumi + the twist(s) in the last chapter were the best part for me. For someone into sociology as much as I am, the unbelievability of the events in the latter part of the story ruined it for me, I was able to gloss over the brutal murder of the other candidate at the very start (for being a few seconds/minutes late, wtf?) but the utter disjunction between a penal system focussed on rehabilitation and the people involved being stupidly cruel (disney villain cruelty, completely out of place in the setting itself) just made it too silly. The obligation to not exist? I couldn't believe that silly shit if I tried, even if it did make the MC's narrating fitting. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pramit 22 Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 (edited) Chaos;Head is also an obvious candidate here, the story actually starts off slowly and poorly, but gets going very well with the introduction of the detective character (best character in the story imo) who is, unlike the MC, actually competent, motivated and to some extent aware of what's going on. Lo and behold, toward the ending they kill him off like an incompetent chump (the events leading to his death are ridiculous) and the story ends with apparently all the girls being/had been tortured into having ESP superpowers and the MC inexplicably gaining them as well, right on time for the final showdown which ends up being nothing more than the ESP equivalent of a staring contest. I'd have loved if Chaos;Head actually spent more time following the detective and him having an actual leading role in the ending, the detective is the only character with somewhat of a clue as to what's going on and seems to be the only character who is actually doing something and getting somewhere. Dissapointing to say the least. i loved chaos head and i did like the ending. Even though, yes he did gain power suddenly, i liked how they executed it. The final showdown had more than just a staring contest...it was beautiful to see his thoughts develop, and he knew he be killed by the one he is trying to save(in one of the good endings, he died); And the detective bit, his death was...reasonable plot wise(the antagonist had no reason to keep him alive, and he was making a breakthrough in the case which had to be dealt with). One thing i liked about chaos head was the possible connections to steins gate, like the alpha world line dystopia could possibly be due to the events in chaos head taking a different route Edited October 20, 2012 by pramit Quote Link to post Share on other sites
desi 53 Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 For someone into sociology as much as I am, the unbelievability of the events in the latter part of the story ruined it for me, I was able to gloss over the brutal murder of the other candidate at the very start (for being a few seconds/minutes late, wtf?) but the utter disjunction between a penal system focussed on rehabilitation and the people involved being stupidly cruel (disney villain cruelty, completely out of place in the setting itself) just made it too silly. The obligation to not exist? I couldn't believe that silly shit if I tried, even if it did make the MC's narrating fitting. When I play VNs, I usually just throw all logic out the window and engross myself with the particular setting that is presented. Almost all VNs that I've played have some type of unrealistic setting, so I don't think it's feasible in my mind to comment on how realistic a VN is. I don't think I would enjoy VNs like Fate Stay/Night if that were the case. As far as what Houzuki does, it makes sense in the context of the VN. His motivation is not of evil alone. He truly believes that what he is doing will improve society and preserve its security, regardless of the cost of the number of lives. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
censuur 10 Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 And the detective bit, his death was...reasonable plot wise(the antagonist had no reason to keep him alive, and he was making a breakthrough in the case which had to be dealt with). My main issue with it was that throughout the story the detective was remarkably perceptive of fine details and was essentially "on the ball" throughout. The way he dealt with the events leading to his death were just out of character for him, as if he knew he was going to die and had resigned himself to it. He knew he was being lured there and that they wanted him out of the picture, he was aware of the risks, yet walked right into one of the most obvious traps you could think of, gone was the competence and savvy he had shown before. It's not his death overall that irritated me, it was the way his character was killed off, it didn't do the character justice. My point about the "staring contest" is that the pacing of it all was so slow, it felt too much like the villain monologuing and counting his chickens before they hatched in a too cliche and silly fashion. The villain was well aware as to what he was up against yet gets defeated in a downright silly fashion. Then again, considering the clueless and inept nature of the main character that was really the best they could do, which was why it was even more frustrating that they killed off the only competent character. The "insanity" of the main villain also ruined much for me stories tend to do this sometimes where a competent and insidious villain metaphorically throws off his mask and goes "tadaaaa, I was actually bat-shit insane all along! whahahahahahaaaaah!" Is it really so hard to come up with reasonable motivation for a competent villain? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pramit 22 Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 (edited) He knew he was being lured there and that they wanted him out of the picture, he was aware of the risks, yet walked right into one of the most obvious traps you could think of, gone was the competence and savvy he had shown before. he didn't have a choice, it was to save his partner. He might have been betting on some sort of negotiation or on his skills as a veteran detective. Maybe it was his sense of justice(he felt it was his fault his young partner got caught) My point about the "staring contest" is that the pacing of it all was so slow, it felt too much like the villain monologuing and counting his chickens before they hatched in a too cliche and silly fashion. The villain was well aware as to what he was up against yet gets defeated in a downright silly fashion. Then again, considering the clueless and inept nature of the main character that was really the best they could do, which was why it was even more frustrating that they killed off the only competent character. maybe the villain wasn't aware of the true potential of the protagonist. He thought his victory was secure so he sought out the most cost effective way of winning i.e acquiring the protagonists sample. If our protagonist had succumbed to pain, it would have given him a valuable test subject or something of that sort The "insanity" of the main villain also ruined much for me stories tend to do this sometimes where a competent and insidious villain metaphorically throws off his mask and goes "tadaaaa, I was actually bat-shit insane all along! whahahahahahaaaaah!" Is it really so hard to come up with reasonable motivation for a competent villain? hm..i did play it quite some time so i don't remember the perfect details of what happened, but...If your taking about insane villain, the most insane would probably be ban's partner(the younger detective). The main villain thought he was doing it for a good cause, and i don't think he acted that insane or it could just be human nature(someone who knows his victory is inevitable,so he decides to revel in the feeling) Edited October 20, 2012 by pramit Quote Link to post Share on other sites
censuur 10 Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 he didn't have a choice, it was to save his partner. He might have been betting on some sort of negotiation or on his skills as a veteran detective. Maybe it was his sense of justice(he felt it was his fault his young partner got caught) The thing is, he just walked in there knowing his life was the one they were after, not his partner's (and if it was, his partner would never survive it anyway, since he was already at their mercy) The fact that he went there alone, knowing there was no way he could save his partner (again, he knew they had captured his partner because they wanted either him or them both dead and would have been well aware there was no way they would let his parner walk away alive), especially without backup, just signaled that he had given up on survival and walked right into his death. He never checked the location of the perpetrator and just took a stroll through the hospital. The more I think about it, the more it just seems like he threw in the towel and let himself be killed, there was no way he wouldn't know that he was the target and his partner would never survive the ordeal, maybe the inevitable death of his partner is what made him too give up and resign to his death. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
OneManArmy 82 Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 When I play VNs, I usually just throw all logic out the window and engross myself with the particular setting that is presented. Almost all VNs that I've played have some type of unrealistic setting, so I don't think it's feasible in my mind to comment on how realistic a VN is. I don't think I would enjoy VNs like Fate Stay/Night if that were the case. Count me in for that. I usually play visual novels to escape from reality and so my mind is obviously ready for some unrealistic shit. I don't like it if a visual novel tries to be realistic but suddenly throws at me magic though. Houzuki I won't join this discussion but I can understand both sides, just sayin. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
phantasm 10 Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Count me in for that. I usually play visual novels to escape from reality and so my mind is obviously ready for some unrealistic shit. I don't like it if a visual novel tries to be realistic but suddenly throws at me magic though. I second this.Why would you concern yourself with reality while you are playing VN ?Just indulge yourself in the world of VN and enjoy it to your heart-content. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
censuur 10 Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 That holds true for me as well most of the time, but when you call your story sci-fi you're going to need to be sure to not forget the "sci" part and make it all fiction. For that particular scenario the inconsistency between the penal system and the people involved in it were too jarring to ignore, it's not so much that it wasn't realistic enough, it was the fact that it was inconsistent. This is probably my own head messing it up for me, but knowing what I do I simply cannot ignore a system that puts would need to put ridiculous ammounts of resources in rehabilitating criminals which then... I'll just stop, it's for the best... Suffice to say when a semi-realistic story suddenly features flying pigs, I can handle it, but when the moon crashes down on earth and everyone keeps going like nothing happened, that's when it becomes too jarring to ignore (unless there's an actual plot relevant reason for that) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Virsia 10 Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 When I play VNs, I usually just throw all logic out the window and engross myself with the particular setting that is presented. Almost all VNs that I've played have some type of unrealistic setting. agreed with that, most vn display unrealistic life, accurate perfect timing, and damn lucky shit. if you gonna compare it's not that different from reading harry potter or agatha cristine novel, thats why i played it on night, it help me fill my own private time, the only time i can get lost in my own way. i bet we all want an adventure thats why we read vn on the first place or maybe we just want a good bedtime story, but whatever the reason is, i think the best way is just accept it and enjoy it Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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