Philosophical Debate: Should VN's actually be classified as "games"?

[Outpost Omega J]

Mostly because I'm bored, I have decided to try and start a debate. The question: Should visual novels be classified as "games"?

 

I propose they should not. While they are quite fun and entertaining, there is very little interactivity. I think it would be more appropriate to classify them as e-books.

 

Added September 5th, 2018 8:41 EST:

The debates seems to have narrowed in onto only two choices, game or book. While there is nothing wrong with arguing one of those two points, it was not my intent to limit this debate to ONLY those two choices, should somebody have another opinion on the matter.

 

Additional note: I set the above poll to private. In theory*, no one can see who voted what.

 

*In theory, theory and practice are one and the same. In practice, theory and practice are completely different.

Edited September 6, 2018 by Outpost Omega J
Grammatical fixes. Added information about the poll.

[TakiMinase]

Related video:

 

[video=youtube;Tu2qo-hwI-o]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tu2qo-hwI-o

[napoleon]

Visual Novels are not quite games and perhaps not quite books either in the traditional sense. They are essentially "choose your own adventure" books.

[Outpost Omega J]

I remember the choose your own adventure books. But that still makes the point they are closer to books than games.

[Pasa]

Visual Novels are games, in fact many of them even have proper gameplay.

[Kai]

Unless they have gameplay like eushully or alicesoft visual novels, I have a hard time seeing them as games.

[napoleon]

I guess the only real question is: are books games?

[Outpost Omega J]

The debates seems to have narrowed in onto only two choices, game or book. While there is nothing wrong with arguing one of those two points, it was not my intent to limit this debate to ONLY those two choices, should somebody have another opinion on the matter.

[Ivan]

One of my favourite computer games is Planescape: Torment - it's a cRPG with absolutely massive amount of text that dwarfs most visual novels (looks familiar? ) and basically non-existent gameplay challenge (you play as character who is immortal - if you die, you respawn immediately. How difficult combat can be?) - 80% of gameplay time is spent navigating massive dialogue trees. I have yet to see someone who wouldn't call it a "game", even if on fundamental level, only thing that differs between Planescape and, say, Fate/Stay Night is artstyle.

[Outpost Omega J]

I think you killed the debate, Ivan.

 

"The site's admin has ruled, I'm not gonna disagree and risk getting banned from the site." says the average website user.

 

I was kinda hoping to get at least thirty total votes in the poll.

Edited September 8, 2018 by Outpost Omega J

[napoleon]

Visual Novels being books or game isn't mutually exclusive. They certainly are games in the sense that they belong to a category of software but are definitely not books despite being primarily text based.

[Kuroyaksha]

Depends on the visual novel, but pure visual novels are most definitely not games. In order for it to be a game you need two things:

 

1. Rules

2. Having a win state and a fail state

[Red Phantoms]

Visual novel today is a very broad genre.

For me it depend on what they include the the game.

 

Some VN like kanna sister simply just a kinetic novel with branching story line similar to goosebumps in that case i really cant say if those classified as game

 

Meanwhile some other VN implement actual gameplay like Senjou no folklore, Hyakki Yakou, Baldr Series (Giga), Dai- series (Alicesoft) and Meister Series (Eushully).

 

My suggestion is instead focusing on the VN itself you should focus whether or not gameplay is exist within the game or not

Edited September 28, 2018 by Red Phantoms

[Outpost Omega J]

*BUMP*

 

I am still holding out hope that I can get thirty total votes in the poll.

[napoleon]

How do I know which one I voted for?

[Outpost Omega J]

How do I know which one I voted for?

 

*Blinks blankly in confusion*

 

The poll it self is a yes or no question. Presumably, you voted in accordance with your own opinion on the matter. The mechanics of the poll are set up to protect the privacy of those who vote so as to minimize ass-hole behavior of those who disagree with you. I know how I voted, and if you read some of my earlier posts, it should be obvious, but I don't have the means to actually see my own vote in the poll, let alone anyone else. My purpose was to start a debate, not a fight.

 

Ivan, as the sight administrator, MIGHT have access to that information, but I don't know for sure. Given that whole point of this debate was to alleviate my boredom the night I set it up, it doesn't seem right to bother Ivan over something so trivial.

Edited November 11, 2018 by Outpost Omega J
Gramatical Fixes

[napoleon]

since i am unsure of how i cast my vote i will now redefine my position on the matter in the following way: visual Novels are and are not games. Thanks for reading.

Edited November 13, 2018 by napoleon
( . Y . )

[Outpost Omega J]

Bench mark! 15 votes! Half way there!

--------------------

Side note, this was my 255th post, other wise known as FF in hexadecimal (no, that is not a reference to bra size, though given the content of this sight in general, I can see how someone might make the mistake). Being a slight computer science nerd, I just felt like celebrating that a little.

Edited November 15, 2018 by Outpost Omega J
Added comment about 255th post.

[Zero Dilemma]

In this matter I agree with both Omega and Napoleon. I don't consider VN as game because it lacks interactivity, which is--in my opinion--the main element in any game. Sure we've to pick choices in a lot of VNs, but as long as it don't have prominent gameplay features then I still consider it more on the side of "passive" entertainment medium.

[Ivan]

How do I know which one I voted for?

 

Answer text of option you chose is displayed in italics.

[Outpost Omega J]

20 VOTES! Two thirds of the way to my goal of thirty!

[TakiMinase]

Congratulations on reaching the milestone. It's a huge achievement considering how inactive this forum overall is.

[Fluffy]

Visual novels aren't games, but products that has a significant gameplay element to it that also reads like a visual novel stays as a game, but like i said:

 

vn's are vn's, not games

[Outpost Omega J]

WOOT! Several votes came in while I wasn't looking. Only 2 more to goal!

[Stef]

It's said that any interaction like a choice in a novel is basically classed as a game, because you choose which why it will end

There are loads of hybrid VN,s too those have to be classed as games

"Reload" for example is a hybrid VN, it has game play like an RPG as well as being a novel

Not all VN's have choices, some are just read through novels, but you still have to advance the text & voices with your keyboard or mouse (interaction), So i have no answer either way! (for this later on read through's)

 

I got to say for most part with the music, voices, backgrounds (some are also animated) etc they do feel like games in a sense, so "Yes!"

BTW didn't the japanese otaku already class them as games

Edited February 5, 2019 by Stef