Plot relevent H Scenes?

[someguy withaname 10]

Sometimes you can send a better and more concrete message by NOT showing the h-scenes. I wouldn't see how that would be censorship if you want to appeal to the audience in a different way. Clannad would be a good example of this. Key is just terrible with h-scenes. Why should they include them if they suck at writing them? It's not a form of censorship, it's just building a concrete message and delivering it to the audience the best way they can. Yes, h-scenes only make up a small portion of a VN, but sometimes it feels that the characters are reduced to just fap fodder. I have nothing against h-scenes...a VN having h-scenes or not does not make it any higher or lower on my list, but many h-scenes just kill the flow of what you're playing. I just don't think all age VNs should be ignored because they try things in a different way than eroges. There are definitely all age VNs out there that show great progression of realistic and natural relationships without throwing an unnecessary h-scene in the mix.

 

Wow, I was literally gonna create a thread very similar to this today or tomorrow but it is already here so less work for me haha.

 

Back to topic though, I really feel the same way about this subject in a lot of respects. I personally feel that Nukiges fill the role of fap material very well. They don't need to tell a great story because that is not their primary purpose. A story driven VN/Eroge however, that is about telling a story and not about H-scenes does not need them so much because that is not the message they are trying to send. For me, if I am reading a VN/Eroge for the story and not the H-scenes, they will almost always get skipped over since many can be extremely long winded and only delay my continued reading of the story. They can also feel like they are tacted on after the fact as well and personalities of the characters can sometimes change once the H-scene begins, EF comes to mind here. On a side note, they can also contribute to what some dub the “Nukige Effect” if they do not fit with the story effectively. I will leave a link here instead of contributing to making this wall of text any longer than it is already becoming though so breathe a sigh of relief guys . Nukige Effect This stereotype really annoys me and the author managed to do a good job of putting my feelings into words so I’ll let the article speak for me this time.

 

An awesome VN like Ever 17 for instance, heard it mentioned several times so I'm continuing that tradition haha, is a good example of a VN/Eroge that is about the story being told. Could there have been H-scenes in Ever 17? Sure, there could have. But would this have helped make the story stronger? I don't think it would have in my personal opinion. Spoiler alert coming up for Ever 17:

 

 

Tsugumi's, as well as Sora's and Coco's/True routes are good examples of what I am trying to say. Obviously, sex happened in these routes and it actually made sense with the story because two of the protagonists would have been absent otherwise. In Ever 17 though, we did not get a play by play of Tsugumi and Takeshi having sex and how they went about doing it. The sex was all implied and it was left up to the reader to fill in the gaps.

 

 

If a few H-scenes were thrown into Ever 17 they would have served only to distract me from what I was really reading it for which was the story. This would have been doubly true if they were done in the traditional way most H-scenes are done. This is because I think the character and story development were both done in a way that made H-scenes unneccessary and they would have felt tacted on if they were added in my opinion.

 

I am currently finishing up Forest right now, if you have not read it yet please do so now as it is amazing (seriously, please click on this link and check it out as it is awesome Forest haha ). With that said however, I think it is also another example of how H-scenes can be put into a VN and not add much to the story. If they are done right they can indeed be helpful, unfortunately most of the time H-scenes fall short when it comes to helping a story say what it wants to say and can end up distracting the reader from the story itself. I don't personally think Forest needed H-scenes at all to be honest but I am just me and everyone has their own opinion, so make up your own mind about this point. I am finally done now and am going to finish Forest, so have fun picking me apart on this post and see ya later guys .

Edited January 23, 2013 by someguy withaname

[blackknight710 10]

Okay, I see what everyone is saying but I'll put this question to you then. Why have the ecchi and eroge genre to begin with? Because lets be honest, its not just VN that can have irrelevant sexual material. Its in all anime and light novels and such. Tell me truthfully, Can you name anything in anime that hasn't at least given the teaser that you could see her underwear, . I agree some VN could be good without the H scene but to some the scene is more than just fap material but a fantasy. A lot of people can say that they honestly connect with some girl characters, hell alot of those characters are based on what guys would like. As the story progresses, they connect with those girls and at least to see them reach a new level of intimacy. Truth be told, there some irrelevant h-scenes simply because there are people out there who want to the see their idea of the closet thing to the perfect girl naked. Because long story short, not to put down on all age material, but separates that VN from a normal book that you could buy for significantly cheaper if the case maybe.

[killerinsidee 14]

Okay, I see what everyone is saying but I'll put this question to you then. Why have the ecchi and eroge genre to begin with? Because lets be honest, its not just VN that can have irrelevant sexual material. Its in all anime and light novels and such. Tell me truthfully, Can you name anything in anime that hasn't at least given the teaser that you could see her underwear, . I agree some VN could be good without the H scene but to some the scene is more than just fap material but a fantasy. A lot of people can say that they honestly connect with some girl characters, hell alot of those characters are based on what guys would like. As the story progresses, they connect with those girls and at least to see them reach a new level of intimacy. Truth be told, there some irrelevant h-scenes simply because there are people out there who want to the see their idea of the closet thing to the perfect girl naked. Because long story short, not to put down on all age material, but separates that VN from a normal book that you could buy for significantly cheaper if the case maybe.

 

I wrote it in my last post, we are not talking about every VN out there, only those that have a more serious and relevant plot/story. To answer your question, it's because there's a demand for it, simple as that. There are a lot of VN genres to choose from - from nukige, light comedy ones, mystery, to nakige, etc, etc. The point I'm trying to make is that this is not a "Fuck all h-scenes from every VN ever" hate thread, some of us just don't like seeing them in more serious VN genres, while h-scenes in let's say nukige are fine because that genre is made just for that purpose. Mix and matching those two is where the problem lies.

 

I won't go into more depth, since the relevant things have already been said and the thread will just go in circles.

Edited January 23, 2013 by killerinsidee

[battlerrules 10]

Tell me truthfully, Can you name anything in anime that hasn't at least given the teaser that you could see her underwear.

 

Legend of the Galactic Heroes. Or rather Legend of the Motherfking Galactic Heroes if you perfer.

 

 

Edit- Since Gerard corrected me will add http://myanimelist.net/anime/3002/Gyakkyou_Burai_Kaiji:_Ultimate_Survivor unless you count guys.......

Edited January 24, 2013 by battlerrules

[iLoveTsundere 10]

Legend of the Galactic Heroes. Or rather Legend of the Motherfking Galactic Heroes if you perfer.

 

 

:O:O battler was two letters short of a full cuss.

[Gerard the Lone Wolf 10]

Legend of the Galactic Heroes. Or rather Legend of the Motherfking Galactic Heroes if you perfer.

 

You do know that Legend of the Galactic Heroes has nudity. (And IIRC it wasn't censored)

Edited January 24, 2013 by Gerard the Lone Wolf

[Gerard the Lone Wolf 10]

The point I'm trying to make is that this is not a "Fuck all h-scenes from every VN ever" hate thread,

I've to admit that I've failed to realize this sooner.

 

some of us just don't like seeing them in more serious VN genres,

Fate/Stay Night comes to mind.

 

 

On a side note, they (h-scenes) can also contribute to what some dub the “Nukige Effect” if they do not fit with the story effectively. I will leave a link here. Nukige Effect This stereotype really annoys me and the author managed to do a good job of putting my feelings into words so I’ll let the article speak for me this time.

You seems to have misunderstood the article. "Nukige effect" isn't a dub or anything (as far as I know), bur rather it was just a title of that article, since the author is trying to discuss the "effect" of "nukige" towards the VN community. The author is expressing his dissatisfaction about people generalizing every VN as nukige, about people don't want to play all-ages game because it's not Nukige, and about MG nukige line-up.

 

So tell me, exactly how h-scenes in story driven VN is related to this article or the so-called "Nukige Effect" of yours?

 

Can you name anything in anime that hasn't at least given the teaser that you could see her underwear, .

One, that's not a question.

Two, don't forget that Anime has Yaoi/Shounen ai genre.

Three, some anime doesn't even have female characters at all.

 

will add Gyakkyou Burai Kaiji: Ultimate Survivor - MyAnimeList.net unless you count guys.......

Doesn't see any female in the character list, so yeah.

[Wahfuu 10]

 

You seems to have misunderstood the article. "Nukige effect" isn't a dub or anything (as far as I know), bur rather it was just a title of that article, since the author is trying to discuss the "effect" of "nukige" towards the VN community. The author is expressing his dissatisfaction about people generalizing every VN as nukige, about people don't want to play all-ages game because it's not Nukige, and about MG nukige line-up.

 

So tell me, exactly how h-scenes in story driven VN is related to this article or the so-called "Nukige Effect" of yours?

 

Yo.

 

Author of that here.

 

You're right in the sense that I didn't really talk about how H-Scenes in story-VN's really work, as it wasn't part of the article, really. I did briefly touch up-on how I feel about Nukige's themselves, but never really decided to say if they really interfered with the flow of the story or not. I probably should have explained if it relates or not. Sorry about that.

 

Anyways. The very notion that VN's need H is incredibly absurd. Very rarely do you find H in visual novels that partains to anything besides fan-service. G-Senjou no Maou's attrocious butchering of Haru's confession in the main route is one of the first that comes to mind as far as misplaced H goes. I find it insane to think that you need it to be there for someone to read a visual novel. Although, this goes back to the "Nukige Effect" I talked about in that article.

 

See, it's almost common knowledge among people who only sort-of know about Visual Novels that these are just weird games for sex. Of course, it's easy to correct, citing Clannad, Little Busters, Ever17 and so on and so forth, but it's becoming a sad truth that our community almost makes it a demand. We don't have many Visual Novels without it. There isn't a demand for it. Why make it when theres a chance that you may sell more copies by putting in fan-service in the game?

 

I say because 80% of the time it's terrible. And it honest to god ruins the quality of the story being told when it's so badly written, which it almost always is. Sure, some stories need it. Do all of them? No. So why do so many of them actually have it? Because there's a demand for it. Regardless of quality diminishing because of it or if it interferes with the flow of the story, it will almost always sell more with sex in it. This is why I think the whole Nukige thing I talked about is relevent, personally. Because the weirder shit, the pointless sex, the lackluster writing sells more then the story-driven stuff. Even the damn companies think we are weirdos who actually pay for weird still-framed voice-acted cartoon sex.

 

Not trying to be mean to anyones opinions or anyones thoughts on the matter, but really, I do find sex in story-driven games to relate to what I said. I find it near cancerous.

Edited January 24, 2013 by Wahfuu

[Gerard the Lone Wolf 10]

Yo.

 

Author of that here.

Hello there.

 

I say because 80% of the time it's terrible. And it honest to god ruins the quality of the story being told when it's so badly written, which it almost always is. Sure, some stories need it. Do all of them? No. So why do so many of them actually have it? Because there's a demand for it. Regardless of quality diminishing because of it or if it interferes with the flow of the story, it will almost always sell more with sex in it. This is why I think the whole Nukige thing I talked about is relevent, personally. Because the weirder shit, the pointless sex, the lackluster writing sells more then the story-driven stuff. Even the damn companies think we are weirdos who actually pay for weird still-framed voice-acted cartoon sex.

 

See, it's almost common knowledge among people who only sort-of know about Visual Novels that these are just weird games for sex. Of course, it's easy to correct, citing Clannad, Little Busters, Ever17 and so on and so forth, but it's becoming a sad truth that our community almost makes it a demand. We don't have many Visual Novels without it. There isn't a demand for it. Why make it when theres a chance that you may sell more copies by putting in fan-service in the game?

 

I believe I’m correct to think that you blamed Nukige, weird fetish, and the people who likes and bought them as the main reason why story-driven VN has h-scenes. All of MG story-driven VN (such as Kara) has h-scenes, but they don’t sell that well. Were it to be all-ages, will it sell more? And why does this happens? Why did the western VN communities throw their money for Boob Wars rather than a story-centric VNs? One of the few reasons that I could think of was that it’s because of the unfamiliarity with the Eroge genre and the existing misconceptions. Since they don’t really understand the medium, it’s either they turned away, or they seek something that doesn’t need an explanation, which is porn. There's also the mentality and mindset among some players that they play Eroge only to get the H-scenes or HCGs. Others would be that they play VNs in order to escape from the shitty real life, that they want some "rabu rabu", and that there's no point in reading a heavy story VNs since it will just reminded them of real life problem. -.-

 

But then, even if western communities doesn’t want Nukige VN and doesn’t have weird fetish, do you really think that MG or Jast can bring many story-driven VN for us? Do you believe that story-driven VN won’t have any h-scenes in it if that were the case? Bear in mind that this is a Japanese game. All the Japanese companies care about is their own native consumers. Unless the Japanese people demand it, there will always be h-scenes in story-driven VNs. Do you think that they care what the gaijin wants? Hahaha… In some part, Japan is insanely xenophobic. Before the release of Ef-the first tale, CEO of Minori would sometimes send random gaijin a message on twitter telling them to stop playing their games. Even Visual Art's main website is still inaccessible outside of Japan. Furthermore, some companies would even send C&D notice to fan- translation team. Doesn’t that tell you something? If they want to sell their game outside of Japan, they would have done it already. One of the reasons why MG can spam Softhouse-Seal Nukige titles was because Softhouse doesn’t mind that we play their games.

 

 

Anyways. The very notion that VN's need H is incredibly absurd. Very rarely do you find H in visual novels that partains to anything besides fan-service. I find it insane to think that you need it to be there for someone to read a visual novel.

What can we say about it? Eroge is a portmanteau of EROtic GamE, and with that, all eroge include some erotic content. It has been like that since long ago. How exactly are we going to change something that is almost like a traditional structure in Japan? All we can do is whining in this thread. Sure, all-ages game exist. However, other than Key, Type-Moon, and 07th Expansion, it's a struggle for other companies to survive making an all-ages game.

 

People keep giving Ever 17 as an example, which is good. But I hope they also realized that KID has gone bankrupt.

Edited January 24, 2013 by Gerard the Lone Wolf

[someguy withaname 10]

What can we say about it? Eroge is a portmanteau of EROtic GamE, and with that, all eroge include some erotic content. It has been like that since long ago. How exactly are we going to change something that is almost like a traditional structure in Japan? All we can do is whining in this thread. Sure, all-ages game exist. However, other than Key, Type-Moon, and 07th Expansion, it's a struggle for other companies to survive making an all-ages game.

 

People keep giving Ever 17 as an example, which is good. But I hope they also realized that KID has gone bankrupt.

 

Yes KID did indeed go bankrupt as you said. I think it was apparent that they were in trouble long beforehand as well, Remember 11 suffered quite a bit in development I think from a combination of factors with budget cuts being one of them. As a result it was not really a surprise, for me at least, when they did finally throw in the towel as I saw the signs before it happened. We can go around and around with this subject but I want to give others a chance to comment so I am only going to touch on this one part and I'll leave it at that for now.

 

As far as what we can say about the state of the industry is concerned, I think the real question is what can we not say about it? I think it is obvious just from this thread alone that there is a percentage of the consumer base that is not satisfied with the way things currently are. If we don't voice our opinions about it then that would essentially be the equivalent of giving up on what we want. Even if there are only 2 people in the world who share this view, there are more obviously but for simplicities sake, they have just as much a right to be heard as everyone else and should not have to compromise their view just because they are a minority.

 

Another thing is this, how do you expect the industry to change if you just keep excepting it as is? I personally love discussing these topics because I love Eroge/VNs a great deal and if I did not care I would not be commenting anything at all. Some of the most important changes in history started out with people discussing their likes and dislikes of the current system. From those discussions, some people decided to try and make a change and put their discussions into practice and made their mark on history. Is the current system good? Is the current system bad? I personally don't like the way the industry is headed and I think without innovation it is going to stagnate but others may think differently.

 

Maybe I'm a dreamer and maybe I'm also an optimist. But as long as I feel the industry can be improved on however, I am going to keep discussing this and other issues and one day, when I have enough knowledge and experience, start putting those discussions into practice. So you asked how exactly we are going to change something? Well it starts right here by discussing it.

[Wahfuu 10]

I believe I’m correct to think that you blamed Nukige, weird fetish, and the people who likes and bought them as the main reason why story-driven VN has h-scenes. All of MG story-driven VN (such as Kara) has h-scenes, but they don’t sell that well. Were it to be all-ages, will it sell more? And why does this happens? Why did the western VN communities throw their money for Boob Wars rather than a story-centric VNs? One of the few reasons that I could think of was that it’s because of the unfamiliarity with the Eroge genre and the existing misconceptions. Since they don’t really understand the medium, it’s either they turned away, or they seek something that doesn’t need an explanation, which is porn. There's also the mentality and mindset among some players that they play Eroge only to get the H-scenes or HCGs. Others would be that they play VNs in order to escape from the shitty real life, that they want some "rabu rabu", and that there's no point in reading a heavy story VNs since it will just reminded them of real life problem.

 

As I said, I don't blame the buisnesses for actually selling it. I can't. It's easy money and we apparently are eager to foam at the mouth in order to see pictures moan at us. However, it's the community that decides what content we get, not the companies. Whatever sells, we get more of. And thats Nukige. No, all-ages can't possibly sell more. There aren't enough people who care or pay attention to quality of writing or flow of a visual novel to warrant taking out an H-Scene despite how bad or abtrusive it is. It will almost always sell more if it has H in it. The only thing I can think of is something from Key, who even among the japanese audience has a reputation for being awful at it.

 

Again, it's not always bad. Sometimes it's just there and forgettable and is supposed to act like a treat for getting to it. Koihime Musou/Shuffle supposedly sold very well.

 

But then, even if western communities doesn’t want Nukige VN and doesn’t have weird fetish, do you really think that MG or Jast can bring many story-driven VN for us? Do you believe that story-driven VN won’t have any h-scenes in it if that were the case? Bear in mind that this is a Japanese game. All the Japanese companies care about is their own native consumers. Unless the Japanese people demand it, there will always be h-scenes in story-driven VNs. Do you think that they care what the gaijin wants? Hahaha… In some part, Japan is insanely xenophobic. Before the release of Ef-the first tale, CEO of Minori would sometimes send random gaijin a message on twitter telling them to stop playing their games. Even Visual Art's main website is still inaccessible outside of Japan. Furthermore, some companies would even send C&D notice to fan- translation team. Doesn’t that tell you something? If they want to sell their game outside of Japan, they would have done it already. One of the reasons why MG can spam Softhouse-Seal Nukige titles was because Softhouse doesn’t mind that we play their games.

 

You can't dispute that if the japanese actually saw a market in the western audience they'd be more lenient towards making a deal. Also, C&D notices are mostly by incredibly over-energetic law teams on the company. Very, very rarely do you ever get a C&D by the president himself to ask you to stop making translations. They wouldn't have made it over to the west any other way, so if even a few people are willing to pay the export fee, it's mostly just free publicity. Wasting money on hard-copies and advertising on a market that doesn't seem to have any want nor care for real power-house visual novels would be a terrible buisness decision. There's no market. That is the only reason. Money is what decides it. It doesn't matter if a couple people are xenophobic on the team. Profit is profit.

 

 

What can we say about it? Eroge is a portmanteau of EROtic GamE, and with that, all eroge include some erotic content. It has been like that since long ago. How exactly are we going to change something that is almost like a traditional structure in Japan? All we can do is whining in this thread. Sure, all-ages game exist. However, other than Key, Type-Moon, and 07th Expansion, it's a struggle for other companies to survive making an all-ages game.

 

People keep giving Ever 17 as an example, which is good. But I hope they also realized that KID has gone bankrupt.

 

Thing is, this isn't limited to us. You're right. Companies can only barely survive making all-ages games. And that's because the thing that I talked about before, community drooling at the mouth for H scenes regardless of quality, exists in japan too. Even despite how good a game might be, people may not buy it simply because of the lack of H. That's why I find H in story-driven games a lot of the time completely cancerous. They offer nothing but fan-service, potentially ruin the flow, and enforce the fact that we need the stupid material in VN's because we are incapable of accepting it as an actual media form.

 

I'm not saying I want all story-H abolished. That'd be bad. And an even-now niche community would grow even smaller. No, I just wish it just not put in there for the sake of putting in there. Like relevancy. Written to fit inside the story without seeming awkward. It's not impossible. Hell, a lot of story-driven VN's H-Scenes are tolerable, yes. It just bothers me when things like Little Busters! don't get looked into/bought because "Everything else has H, why doesn't this?"

 

Sharin no Kuni, Himawari no Shoujo's H was okay. It was a reward for going through all the crap. Saya no Uta's H was a plot-point. Then there's Da Capo II and Yume Miru Kusuri, who have a little bit of being pointless but tolerable. Then you have MuvLuv Alternatives H which was pointless and terrible. G-Senjou's which was entirely flow killing, F/SN's which was forced & Hoshizoras which a lot of the time was random.

 

I might be being too picky about quality. I mean, I did enjoy all of the ones I listed, really. The H didn't ruin the games. Yet, it's annoying to be reminded that companies have to shoehorn this crap in because it won't sell otherwise.

[Gerard the Lone Wolf 10]

Yes KID did indeed go bankrupt as you said. I think it was apparent that they were in trouble long beforehand as well, Remember 11 suffered quite a bit in development I think from a combination of factors with budget cuts being one of them. As a result it was not really a surprise, for me at least, when they did finally throw in the towel as I saw the signs before it happened.

Was it correct for me to presume that you’ve played VNs for at least 8 years now?

 

Aside from KID, I will provide another example. (And this will be a repetition for one of my post in this thread)

Minori almost go down when they released an all-ages title called Supipara last year, so they went and slap a dozen h-scenes on NnP and the result was a huge success. NnP sold really well in Japan.

 

As far as what we can say about the state of the industry is concerned, I think the real question is what can we not say about it? I think it is obvious just from this thread alone that there is a percentage of the consumer base that is not satisfied with the way things currently are. If we don't voice our opinions about it then that would essentially be the equivalent of giving up on what we want. Even if there are only 2 people in the world who share this view, there are more obviously but for simplicities sake, they have just as much a right to be heard as everyone else and should not have to compromise their view just because they are a minority.

As for your real question, my answer would be that you can perfectly say and/or write whatever you want. There’s nothing to stop you from bitching about the existence of H-scenes in story-driven VNs for 24 hours, every single day if you wanted to. (I’m exaggerating but you’ll get the gist. I hope.) As to whether the whining will cause a change, well, haha, I’ll refrain from commenting about it in the time being since I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings.

 

Another thing is this, how do you expect the industry to change if you just keep excepting it as is?

This is amusing. I don’t expect it to change. I’m anticipating its downfall.

 

I personally love discussing these topics because I love Eroge/VNs a great deal and if I did not care I would not be commenting anything at all. Some of the most important changes in history started out with people discussing their likes and dislikes of the current system. From those discussions, some people decided to try and make a change and put their discussions into practice and made their mark on history. Is the current system good? Is the current system bad? I personally don't like the way the industry is headed and I think without innovation it is going to stagnate but others may think differently.

 

Maybe I'm a dreamer and maybe I'm also an optimist. But as long as I feel the industry can be improved on however, I am going to keep discussing this and other issues and one day, when I have enough knowledge and experience, start putting those discussions into practice. So you asked how exactly we are going to change something? Well it starts right here by discussing it.

Well, I wuish I waa a baado you good luck on your holy quest to change the H-scenes and the Eroge industry in Japan, then.

 

 

F/SN's which was forced

Don't remind me of Fate/Stay Night h-scenes. It was horrible.

[spoiler= f/sn]

Tohsaka talking about poor Magus selling semen to Mage Association... -.-

Edited January 24, 2013 by Gerard the Lone Wolf

[Wahfuu 10]

As for your real question, my answer would be that you can perfectly say and/or write whatever you want. There’s nothing to stop you from bitching about the existence of H-scenes in story-driven VNs for 24 hours, every single day if you wanted to. (I’m exaggerating but you’ll get the gist. I hope.) As to whether the whining will cause a change, well, haha, I’ll refrain from commenting about it in the time being since I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings.

 

I don't think an opinion would hurt anyones feelings. Just know that your opinion is subject to being as wrong as everyone elses. Of course, simply talking on a forum won't change anything. I'm not even wishing for all H to be abolished in all story driven VN's, either. I just wish it was more then just fan-service. It's not impossible to make sex relevant or meaningful in a story. I just encourage people I know/talk with to get hard-copies of the really great VN's that deserve the money for the experience. If they can afford them, obviously. That's a different matter.

 

This is amusing. I don’t expect it to change. I’m anticipating its downfall.

What? What could possibly make you think the VN industry is going anywhere? If anything sales have been going up with the popularity slowly melting into the west. The only thing is that it's hard for new companies and VN's that aren't set in a highschool/have a deeper meaning to them to set a foothold in the industry. Key, TYPE-MOON and Nitroplus are all still doing well.

 

There is literally no evidence to support any VN death any time soon.

Edited January 25, 2013 by Wahfuu

[hyromaru 29]

I think the First H-scene in majikoi's Chris route had some kind of relevance.

[Whitetragedy 23]

I was going to read this thread but then saw all the wall of text on this page and was like tl;dr after reading two posts.

[Gerard the Lone Wolf 10]

Ah, all this wall of text filled with crap and shit. Good times.

[floral 10]

YES SOMEONE MADE A POST YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Well time to type something here that will lead up to my spoiler but so someone wont see it on a profile page.

 

 

Here is the PERFECT example of why you dont need a sex scene. In Ever17 they have sex it says on the screen and we the reader can understand. They dont need to show us anything and we can understand that and they are in love. This shows people are capable of showing love and hinting at sex without even showing it.

 

this! A hundred times this!

 

i am sorry but you are wrong and you are right.

 

Ever17 is not as you have seen even more than the other translated to English eroge / visual novels / games produced by companies.

Hirameki International which brought the western world Exodus, Ever17, Ai Yori Aoshi, and others was a company that brought hentai-games without the hentai. They tore out the sex scenes and rewrote it a little so we presumedly could not tell, so it was just romantic, so that any sexual stuff was suggestive. They were proud of the fact that they brought us H-games without the H, proud that they butchered the games in a way other than the norm.

 

If they did not have sexual stuff, if they ripped it out and then rewrote those parts then they did not have to up the age of characters in the stories, did not have to change it so they are all 18 and over. This way it could be bought by teens.

 

Now it is true that some visual novels are written without sex and it is true that not every story has to have it. However to just remove it is not right. In some stories, in alot of them, the sex scenes are right to have. Sex is natural to have in quite a few stories, the story would be destroyed without it without some inventive rewrites.

 

It boggles the mind that the western civilization will uncensor pussies, cocks, assholes, absolutely loves these stories, but are so squeamish about age that they will make everyone 18 and over butchering stories as need be, and if they know they cannot do that like with games like Kawakaburi no Cherry will just not release it to us. They are able to tolerate rape scenes but will alter them so that tears are removed. The western civilization is so incredibly repressed that they have made so many harmless things so illegal. Lolicon/Shotacon is harmless, a fetish we enjoy, and it harms nobody, and allows us to play through some of our fantasies without harming any child at all.

 

Just look at what the x-change 3 patch puts back in in the description.

 

Again just saying "they made love" or "they had sex" is not the same as seeing it or describing every detail like in the old graphic detail wording. i much prefer to see it, sometimes to hear what is said during it.

 

Yes some stories do well without it and you could rewrite it unnecessarily and unwisely but the stories we have here and do not have here yet that have sex scenes should remain as such and they also should not be altered to up the ages or change certain parts of some genres which has been done by the companies.

Edited December 1, 2013 by floral

[Gerard the Lone Wolf 10]

i am sorry but you are wrong and you are right.

 

Why did you remove Butler's spoiler tag?

 

Anyway, we are not discussing censorship, regrettably. This old topic at hands is about -plot relevant H-scenes- in VNs.

 

Furthermore, Ever17, Never7, and the rest of the infinity series are originally 15+ to begin with, and is a good example for non-hscene VN. Though I personally don't believe it added much, anyway. It would have been more contributory to discussion if someone were to give an example of -how- to made plot relevant h-scenes instead of turning this thread into h-scenes bashing ground.

Edited December 1, 2013 by Gerard the Lone Wolf

[Uzuki Sepia 10]

Imo there are eroge with h-scenes that aren't there just to "appeal to the target"; among those I've read and liked there are Sharnoth

[where, for example, Moran's scene are a good example of sex as palliative for loneliness and the sadness she feels because of her one-sided love -but for real, not the usual sorry excuse for a bit of cheap porn-

, MLA

[with Sumika's rape scene; the tentacle rape thing was pretty convenient but that monologue was touching, that moment of self-deprecation earned Sumika a lot of points in my eyes

and I think that Forest deserves a mention as well (at least for THAT one).

 

That said, I've more or less read the first page and agree.

Edited December 1, 2013 by Uzuki Sepia