do you think it would be a good thing if eroge was popular in the west

[someguy withaname 10]

To be honest OneManArmy, I do sympathize with your reluctance a great deal. I would not personally care for, at least right this moment, an eroge with content lacking in Japanese influences either. Japanese culture is extremely fascinating to me and it would definitely be off for me too, even as someone who is from the west.

 

That being said, the point I wanted to make was that while Japanese influenced eroge would not make up 100% of the pie anymore the pie itself, being the eroge industry in general, would increase substantially in size. This would mean that while say for example, 20% of all eroge are Japanese based in the year 2050 that 20% would be larger than the 100% we have today because the market is way bigger for them. More people would become aware of eroge in general which would allow for all kinds of future Japanese eroge lovers that are simply ignorant of the fact they exist or they have been stigmatized into thinking they are bad. The kinds of eroge you and I care about will still be there, in greater numbers to boot, it would simply be accompanied by a family of other types of eroge as well.

 

This would also have the added benefit of stirring up competition as well which will force everyone, not just Japanese companies, to stay on their A game more and provide more higher quality products. An example would be if say, a European based eroge company started to become more popular in the United States and began to cut into the Japanese eroge company's market they would be forced to take action. Now someone might think, they could just cut off translating eroge to the United States altogether but it would be a waste of revenue they could potentially be receiving, executives love putting our money in their pockets after all, and would be harmful to their company and personal wallets. This competition could consequently, stir the Japanese companies into action and would push them into investing more in increasing awareness about Japanese eroge as well as translating higher quality eroge for all non-Japanese consumers to enjoy in that country.

 

I personally feel that while a transition to a more multi-cultural level would be a very painful one for many of us, I think that it is necessary if the eroge industry is to grow and evolve. The Japanese are an amazing people in my opinion and I think that the Japanese eroge industry will be capable of surviving, as well as thriving, in a more globally competitive environment.

[Gerard the Lone Wolf 10]

The kinds of eroge you and I care about will still be there, in greater numbers to boot, it would simply be accompanied by a family of other types of eroge as well.

A family of eroge (erotic games) eh...

 

 

This would also have the added benefit of stirring up competition as well which will force everyone, not just Japanese companies, to stay on their A game more and provide more higher quality products.

The fact that you failed to noticed is that nukige "almost" always sold better than story driven VN. MG Boob Wars sold better than Kara. Although I don't know the true statistic in Japan, I know enough to know that the trend aren't much different. There are a few big companies who still releasing story-driven VNs with little to no h-scenes but even those are feeling the pressure. This "stirring up competition" will do nothing other than forcing them to go/stay with the h-scene first, storyline second trend, and has to provide more nukige products in order to stay afloat. And of course, even the one who is stirring the competition has to follow the trend too. Because it's business, they've to caters to the consumers need.

 

 

An example would be if say, a European based eroge company started to become more popular in the United States and began to cut into the Japanese eroge company's market they would be forced to take action.

That example is flawed because Japanese eroge is made for japanese. Gaijin are just leeching.

 

 

Now someone might think, they could just cut off translating eroge to the United States altogether

Other than MG and Jast localizing some of those VN, I failed to see any Japanese companies translating their eroge for gaijin. They can't cut a rope that they never tied.

 

but it would be a waste of revenue they could potentially be receiving, executives love putting our money in their pockets after all, and would be harmful to their company and personal wallets.

I'm pretty sure they don't want gaijin money.

 

This competition could consequently, stir the Japanese companies into action and would push them into investing more in increasing awareness about Japanese eroge as well as translating higher quality eroge for all non-Japanese consumers to enjoy in that country.

You seems to believe that Japanese eroge companies cares about their consumers outside of Japan.

 

I personally feel that while a transition to a more multi-cultural level would be a very painful one for many of us, I think that it is necessary if the eroge industry is to grow and evolve.

Anime is widely acceptable. It has wider fans and isn't look down upon. Then why can't I see a popular anime that is multi-cultural, made by the western companies and doesn't suck? Why indeed.

 

The Japanese are an amazing people in my opinion and I think that the Japanese eroge industry will be capable of surviving, as well as thriving, in a more globally competitive environment.

I think if they want to go global, they would have done it already.

 

Also, rapelay. (:

Edited December 16, 2012 by Gerard the Lone Wolf

[hyromaru 29]

^^ actually like gerard says people in Japan are kinda racist against america and europe..

[someguy withaname 10]

Real quick to Hyromaru before I begin again: I am definitely taking your word on that point, my dream is to go to Japan one day but I do not pretend to know all that much about Japanese culture outside of what gets brought to my own country, which is not as much as I would like. I do still want to go though because it’s my dream and gosh darn it I'm going to make it happen one way or another someday.

 

I am still trying to figure out how to quote properly, newb here I know but I can do spoilers now so it’s a start, so I will retype the first part of what you responded to for now until I finally learn how to do it. Here we go:

1. "A family eroge (erotic games) eh....." Yeah now that you point it out that does sound rather eh... lol I could have definitely phrased that part better.

2. "The fact that you failed to notice is that nukige....." Actually I did notice that fact and have wanted to comment on that in other sites in the past, no personal computer made it somewhat difficult haha, but I failed to mention it because when I was saying eroge I was talking about it in all of its aspects, including nukige. I was trying to avoid having the topic depart from its initial string, since I could write my thesis on this subject and just might, but I probably should have been more forthcoming in my definition of what I was considering eroge as well as hit on that topic briefly. I probably should have explained a bit more on my next point too in order to avoid confusion.

Now, correct if I am wrong but I think you were assuming that when I mentioned A game I was talking about story content only which is not the case. "A-game" in the way I was using it meant eroge content in all of its aspects, story progression, h-content, character development, etc. If h-content is what the consumer wants then that is what the consumer wants but the more competition there is the better it will have to be to remain competitive and the same for the other parts of eroge as well.

3. "That example is flawed....." Yes you are right again on that point as well but I was using that example only as a hypothetical. I was making the argument that if eroge expanded in the west and became like movies are today other domestic companies would undoubtedly spring up to seize the market. These companies, in this theoretical world, will be catering to their own market in their own country and undoubtedly will impart a portion of their cultural heritage into their eroge creations. This would lead to a broadening of what it means for something to be considered an eroge and would in my opinion enrich the genre beyond its current form.

 

4. "Other than MG and Jast....." This is true yes but there is still a market to be had globally, I bought persona 4 anime for my cousin for Holidays so prime example here. This was again part of my hypothetical world and in that world, previous two entries, I was using it as an example to show how even with increased competition OneManArmy and everyone else would still be getting their eroge fix.

 

5. "I'm pretty sure they don't want gajin money" I think you underestimate business leaders. If I were to offer you free money, no strings attached, would you turn me down? I could be wrong but I don't think you would, I certainly would not, and that is exactly how a good business man sees a potential investment. The problem is developing a plan to persue such a venture, as well as convincing others it is a good plan, in this case expanding eroge throughout the west. This is a topic I want to avoid since I don't want to write a 100+ page business plan for this at this particular moment but in a future thread who knows.

 

6. "You seems[sic] to believe....." I believe they care about their largest market more than any other, which unless the world shifted is Japan, right again. Once again though, this is part of my hypothetical which I was using to respond to the initial topic and is not representative of the current world. In a world where eroge means more than Japanese eroge there would be companies in every country that would be fighting for a share of the markets. Now japanese companies could sit around and do nothing and cater only to their own domestic market but I guarantee you there will be some who want to get a leg up by getting a piece of other markets in a more prosperous overseas environment.

 

7. "Anime is widely acceptable. It has....." This may be the case with anime but when you mention eroge or visual novels people do not think the same way. I explained some of this in my first post but if anyone wishes me to elaborate further please let me know, I like to talk as you can tell. The answer to the second of this is that it is because anime, eroge, etc. are still seen primarily as a Japanese thing and such societal stigmas are going to lead to reductions in quality inevitably. Again, in the hypothetical i was describing, I was mentioning the idea of broadening the concept of what it takes for something to be classified as eroge. In a world where the market for eroge is growing more and more businesses will be appearing with bigger budgets, better quality workers, and greater competition. This will also inevitably lead to a rise in quality for eroge in general whether it is traditional Japanese, Australian, Morrocan, Mexican, etc. I could argue the specifics of this all day long so send me a message if you want and we can work something out.

 

8. "I think if they want to go global....." This relates to what I said back in number 5.

 

9. "Also, Rapelay" Yes the rapelay incident was an unfortunate black mark but that is a topic for another time as I don't have the strength for it now.

 

Finally we arrive at the end. Hope this clarified things and feel free to keep um coming if you want, eroge is something I really enjoy discussing and I have no qualms with keeping this thread going. For now I am going to bed so see you all in the am.

[Gerard the Lone Wolf 10]

wall of text

Since I'm terribly bored right now, I'll play this quote & reply game for a while.

 

 

2. "The fact that you failed to notice is that nukige....." Actually I did notice that fact

Oh good, so you've noticed. Then again, seeing that we're having this wonderful hypothetical discussion right now, I wonder what exactly did you understand/learn from it.

 

 

but I failed to mention it because when I was saying eroge I was talking about it in all of its aspects, including nukige.

So am I. I'm talking about "everything".

 

 

Now, correct if I am wrong but I think you were assuming that when I mentioned A game I was talking about story content only which is not the case.

You're wrong. I'll give you two reasons for it. One, you didn't strike me as a "all-ages only guy" and neither as a guy who thinks that "H-scenes is pointless and unnecessary", so I couldn't poosibly assume what you're assuming me to assume. Of course, this is based on my first impression about your post so there's a high-chance that I am very wrong about your personality.

 

Two, since I don't know what is your version of an "A-games", I just kinda start talking about my own version of a good games. For me, a good Visual Novel should've two major things. A splendid and great plot, and a set of interesting characters that has good development and progression as the story unfold. H-scenes aren't important. If they want to put it as a reward for player, they can do it. If they want to make it all-ages, it's up to them. And this is why you thought I'm assuming you're talking about story oriented eroge. No, I'm not assuming.

 

That said, since you are trying to tell people that their game will be fine if your hypothetical situation become a reality, you could and should elaborate further about your version of an "A-games". Give me your example of an A game.

 

 

"A-game" in the way I was using it meant eroge content in all of its aspects, story progression, h-content, character development, etc.

Oh wait, all-ages doesn't have h-content. Is it not an A-game then? Okay, I'm mostly joking in this part, but do answer the question. Please.

Btw, you know what cover all genre of an eroge? A good plot and characters. (Yes, nukige can has good story too.)

 

 

If h-content is what the consumer wants then that is what the consumer wants but the more competition there is the better it will have to be to remain competitive and the same for the other parts of eroge as well.

If this is the only thing that you can take from that particular part of my post, I am seriously disappointed.

 

And now, right after I've you told that nukige sold better than story-oriented VN, you want some more competition. lololol

 

---

Hypothetical argument shit start here.

 

3. "That example is flawed....." Yes you are right again on that point as well but I was using that example only as a hypothetical.

you're using a hypothetical example that is almost equal to "if human can shoot laser from their finger" to prove your point. Okay, carry on. -.-

 

I was making the argument that if eroge expanded in the west and became like movies are today other domestic companies would undoubtedly spring up to seize the market.These companies, in this theoretical world, will be catering to their own market in their own country and undoubtedly will impart a portion of their cultural heritage into their eroge creations. This would lead to a broadening of what it means for something to be considered an eroge and would in my opinion enrich the genre beyond its current form.

1. Most movies nowadays are shitty. (I'm sorry but I really dunnno whether the movie in that theoretical world is shitty or not.)

2. Eroge are awesome because they are made in Japan.

3. The meaning of Eroge: Term often used by the industry in replace of hentai for erotic games.

4. It's not genre. It's called platform.

5. "current form". Do explain the current form of eroge if you could.

 

4. "Other than MG and Jast....." This is true yes but there is still a market to be had globally, I bought persona 4 anime for my cousin for Holidays so prime example here.

Nope. Persona 4 aren't eroge. That "prime example" doesn't count. I specifically said eroge and translating, didn't i? (and you did bought it right? That's not a hypothetical situation right?)

 

And I assume that eroge global market is in that theoretical world. Cuz, in reality other MG and Jast, such thing doesn't exist.

 

This was again part of my hypothetical world and in that world, previous two entries, I was using it as an example to show how even with increased competition OneManArmy and everyone else would still be getting their eroge fix.

Yes, you're showing them an example full with flaw. But nvm that.

 

5. "I'm pretty sure they don't want gajin money" I think you underestimate business leaders. If I were to offer you free money, no strings attached, would you turn me down? I could be wrong but I don't think you would, I certainly would not, and that is exactly how a good business man sees a potential investment.

 

I think you underestimate the real (reality) situation. Japan is insanely xenophobic. Try proving me wrong. And my question isn't a hypothetical question.

 

1. Why eroge companies doesn't want to open their market in the west?

2. Why they send C&D notice to fan-translation project?

3. Why does Jast has to wait months for the Japanese eroge companies greenlight?

4. Do we really need more than three question?

 

The problem is developing a plan to persue such a venture, as well as convincing others it is a good plan, in this case expanding eroge throughout the west.

Since you claimed that your plan involve every espect of eroge, then explained how will the west goverment accept the Guro, Loli, Rape, and other extreme theme in it. Hypothetically of course.

 

This is a topic I want to avoid since I don't want to write a 100+ page business plan for this at this particular moment but in a future thread who knows.

I hope you don't. Seriously, no.

 

6Once again though, this is part of my hypothetical which I was using to respond to the initial topic and is not representative of the current world. In a world where eroge means more than Japanese eroge there would be companies in every country that would be fighting for a share of the markets. Now japanese companies could sit around and do nothing and cater only to their own domestic market but I guarantee you there will be some who want to get a leg up by getting a piece of other markets in a more prosperous overseas environment.

Okay, since this is all not real I don't have to argue with it. And your "guarantee" are based on what? Air? LOL

 

 

7. "Anime is widely acceptable. It has....." This may be the case with anime but when you mention eroge or visual novels people do not think the same way.

You don't say. Btw, I wrote that to emphasize the question that come after it.

 

The answer to the second of this is that it is because anime, eroge, etc. are still seen primarily as a Japanese thing and such societal stigmas are going to lead to reductions in quality inevitably.

Second? You need to read properly.

Reductions in quality because it was only made in Japan? Hahaha.........okay, this is seriously funny.

 

 

 

8. "I think if they want to go global....." This relates to what I said back in number 5.

Xenophobia

[AhriFoxFire 10]

o yea dem wall of texts

[OneManArmy 82]

WALLS OF TEXT ARE EVERYWHERE!!!!!

 

Anyway, I read through the new comments and I don't know if it makes any sense to continue the current discussion. You know, both opinions are totally understandable and I don't think that one of you will suddenly be convinced and change his opinion. As for myself, I do see that a popularity boost of visual novels could bring us some benefits but I also see the risk that they could loose a huge amount of quality because western companys will concentrate on nukige etc. I'm damn happy with the current situation and I'm also talking about the fanbase these days.

 

 

I am still trying to figure out how to quote properly

Use [*quote][*/quote] without the *'s.

[Gerard the Lone Wolf 10]

^ 9.5/10 for that sig. I didn't notice that pic before lol. Love yuki~~~

 

Edit: (And yes, I know this wasn't the sig thread.)

 

WALLS OF TEXT ARE EVERYWHERE!!!!!

lol I used to make wall of text like this in my old forum just for fun and shit, but I've long stopped that bad habit. Gosh, it's starting to coming back...I've to suppress it~~~!

 

I don't know if it makes any sense to continue the current discussion

I agree.

Edited December 16, 2012 by Gerard the Lone Wolf

[OneManArmy 82]

lol I used to make wall of text like this in my old forum just for fun and shit, but I've long stopped that bad habit. Gosh, it's starting to coming back...I've to suppress it~~~!

Don't worry, I know what you're talking about, my longest wall of text contained ~5000 words...

...

and nobody read it. =(

[someguy withaname 10]

lol to everyone who mentioned the wall of text. I only planned to do one rebuttal for each person anyway because I know I can overtalk. I can go on and on about this and other things too so please forgive massive wall of text. Great back and forth though Gerard it was fun trying to find answers to all of your valid points, it gives a lot of food for thought for me later on and a good excuse to keep researching the subject as well.

[Seraphic 13]

If only more westerners could make non-shitty VNs and anime....well. I can't spend all day fantasizing. But I have to agree that the main reason that eroge will never spread to the West is that the Japanese give absolutely no shits about foreigners. They are content in being their own, self-sustaining culture, and have absolutely no reason (at least, in their mind) to expand beyond that.

[renvateru 10]

i want eroge popular in west but must stay hidden. when lots people know eroges, they will blame eroge as source of problem like they blame murder case because the criminal once have play shooting game.

[Seraphic 13]

Oh, but we've forgotten the most important point. If eroge were popular in the west, sites like erogedownload and downloadani would be shut down, and then it's back to paying a month's wages for a single game.

[someguy withaname 10]

Oh, but we've forgotten the most important point. If eroge were popular in the west, sites like erogedownload and downloadani would be shut down, and then it's back to paying a month's wages for a single game.

 

darn that is a pretty good point actually, though I would argue about this site being shut down as I think they are still operating within the law but its a gray area. There would be more regulation on our end however, so it would definitely be harder to operate openly. My original opinion still stands strong for me though. Sites like this one might have to change their current business model and structure but if they are willing to change and they have good people it is not necessarily a death sentence.

Edited December 24, 2012 by someguy withaname
clarification

[erogeking 15]

Oh, but we've forgotten the most important point. If eroge were popular in the west, sites like erogedownload and downloadani would be shut down, and then it's back to paying a month's wages for a single game.

I'm pretty god damn sure that downloading movies are illegal but here i am downloading the Avangers if anything there would be more sites like erogedownload. i mean look at anime the more popular it gets the more sites there are to watch it hell theres more than enough anime sites Not to mention the fact that erogedownload isn't breaking any laws because all it does is provide links to websites that hosts the file for download. But I'm not 100% sure after all I'm no lawyer and the laws change and each country there own laws

Edited October 6, 2013 by erogeking

[iLoveTsundere 10]

nice necro there.

[Gerard the Lone Wolf 10]

He is the OP though.

[floral 10]

those die hard so called morally superior groups really get on my nerves.

 

way of life they do not approve of, fetishes or fantasies they do not approve of, they pretty much go out in arms campaigning against those things they do not approve of and stir up so much panic and fear and disgust that they pretty much have a good chance of people passing a law banning it.

 

why does it matter that there is animated rape or dominance/submission fantasies, that there are people who like lolicon/shotacon comics and visual novels, that we like cat girls/boys or any other animal girls/boys, that gays/lesbians/transexuals/shemales want equal rights to others, what does it harm them that somebody they do not know or do know has an abortion.

 

It is our lives. We do not harm others. Live and let live. People should not fear and hate what they do not understand and definitely should not stir up the fear of the unknown in others. It just sickens me sometimes when i see what those so called "holier than though morally superior" groups and individuals do to others and how they make other peoples lives a living hell because they are different. It is the sort of behavour that bullies in classrooms and on the playground do.

 

We are not telling them how they should live, that they have to play and read these eroges, it is not like we make them participate in it. We just want it available to us to enjoy.

Edited December 12, 2013 by floral

[ChexGuy 13]

We just want it available to us to enjoy.

 

"fuck your enjoyment"

 

-politicians

[floral 10]

Oh, but we've forgotten the most important point. If eroge were popular in the west, sites like erogedownload and downloadani would be shut down, and then it's back to paying a month's wages for a single game.

 

darn that is a pretty good point actually, though I would argue about this site being shut down as I think they are still operating within the law but its a gray area. There would be more regulation on our end however, so it would definitely be harder to operate openly. My original opinion still stands strong for me though. Sites like this one might have to change their current business model and structure but if they are willing to change and they have good people it is not necessarily a death sentence.

 

These sites would not be shut down but it would be more restricted if this site came out in the open.

 

We would not be able to share the games openly. If that remained in the shadows then this site would be acceptable if eroge visual novels were accepted.

 

The illegal part of what we are doing is that we are sharing the games with each other. The translation patches are not technically illegal because they need the game already working to make them work, just share those and it would be technically legal.

[napoleon 134]

vns will become popular in the west then american business will find there is moneey to be make with investment so a result is more better vns with more better budgets and quality as a result. thank you for my presentation

[Pasa 278]

With all the censorship we have now I guess it was bad thing after all.

[TakiMinase 148]

With all the censorship we have now I guess it was bad thing after all.

 

That's because of Steam ... Nowhere in the question was asked "Would you like VNs to be popular on Steam" xD In fact, I voted "yes" (I am in minority here xD) ... But not on Steam ... I would love if the VNs were popular uncensored on another platform but sadly it will not happen, not even Nutaku ... There's no fully uncensored digital store for VNs sadly Except the official ones by MG and JAST (even JAST has to resort to unofficial patches for some VNs) ...

[Caelistas 12]

Much has changed since this thread was first made.

 

VN's def are more popular and have an extremely large visibility now (steam). It's only bad if you like to buy eroge's really.

 

Still i think we'll always have dedicated fan translators, for all the non all ages stuff.

Edited March 22, 2017 by Caelistas

[Pasa 278]

And now machine translations are on the rise too so basically everything that could have possibly gone wrong is now happening.